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Proposal to reduce chamber provision in the UK

Discussion in 'General Scuba Diving' started by furryman, Jan 21, 2018.

  1. furryman

    furryman hmmmm
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    Shamlessly copied from another famous forum...
    The more responses they get to the linked survey, the better.


    https://www.engage.england.nhs.uk/co...ygen-services/

    "NHS England has today (15 January 2018) launched a 30 day public consultation for the Reviewing Hyperbaric Oxygen Services.

    NHS England is responsible for planning and buying a national HBOT service as part of the portfolio of specialised commissioning. HBOT is the delivery of oxygen at a pressure greater than normal (greater than 100 kPa) so that a higher level of oxygen can be dissolved in the patient's blood plasma. This takes place within a treatment chamber which may accommodate one or more patients and attendant staff.

    It is the only treatment available for decompression illness, a condition that divers are at risk of developing. Divers with suspected decompression illness need urgent access to HBOT.

    It also has some other applications in treating a range of injuries, however there is not conclusive evidence of the efficacy of these applications, and the evidence for these are currently under review through the NHS England policy process.

    NHS England believes that this service is currently over provided, at an unnecessary cost to tax payers, and therefore propose to reduce the number of commissioned providers from ten to eight."
     
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  2. speed098

    speed098 Member

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    Filled in the survey, hopefully if enough do it may get looked at. They should be increasing the numbers not looking at decreasing them.
     
  3. JohnL

    JohnL Well-Known Member

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    Me too - I added a comment that most, if not all, divers have insurance and should be charged for treatment. While this may not be in the spirit of "everything is provided free" NHS, it seems equitable that if you put yourself at an unusual risk and want the facilities to treat problems that arise, you should be prepared to accept the cost.
     
  4. Dave Whitlow

    Dave Whitlow Well-Known Member

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    :eek::eek::eek: So much to disagree with in such a short post!

    I think you are very much mistaken and will find most UK divers do not have any insurance that would cover chamber costs in the UK.

    I am curious to understand why you feel it is reasonable to single out divers, as a small group with an adventurous sport expected to cover the cost of treatment for their activities, when the NHS will cover broken bones, and surgery, resulting from horse-riding, hang gliding, climbing, motor sport, cycling and many other injurious activities.
     
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  5. speed098

    speed098 Member

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    So if a diver gets bent they should pay but someone needing treatment from friction burns etc ( HBOT ) from say crashing while mountain biking should get it for free ?

    Well everyone who lives here pays national insurance and so are already paying for it. Divers from abroad fine, at min they should have extra cover within their holiday insurance to pay for it if not specialist diver insurance.

    Sorry but more logical to charge the idiots who go up mountains in winter without the bare min equipment for the conditions/ their own personal ability if they need rescuing. This would then help fund the rescue helis as well as SARs dogs. Then again why not the idiots who crash a car at 60-70 mph in a built up area or at over 100mph on motorways and need months of treatment which could even include HBOT treatment in said chambers for burns.

    So before it is suggested divers or skiers or well equipped walkers/climbers get charged there are hundreds of other groups who should be considered first.
     
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  6. Tribal Chestnut

    Tribal Chestnut Active Member
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    Have to agree with big @Dave Whitlow on this one @JohnL.

    If we took that route it defeats the very purpose of the NHS, in which case let's just privatise it and everything else fully and just charge at the point of use.

    From a purely selfish perspective, I'd be ok, and get a nice big saving on my tax bill. Fuck everyone else eh?!
     
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  7. JohnL

    JohnL Well-Known Member

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    I hope that my controversial post will make you all respond to the survey! My response was pragmatic - no how much money is thrown at the NHS, they will always complain that they are underfunded. Not surprisingly, they are looking to reduce specialist and expensive facilities that are only used by a small group of people (as opposed to using regular facilities to deal with broken bones etc.). If you want that specialist facility nearby when you find yourself bent, you may have to find a way to fund it differently. I had a look at the chambers available across Europe - Germany has 26, I wonder how they are funded?
     
  8. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    Aside from DCS, what other ailments are treated with hydrobaric therapy? Also is that the sole treatment?

    As divers, the sole therapy for DCS is recompression in a chamber, particularly for severe bends. Are there other ailments which *need* recompression?

    If it's just divers, then @JohnL's point is probably right and the diving community should do something about providing hydrobaric resource, especially in these austere times.
     
  9. Dave Whitlow

    Dave Whitlow Well-Known Member

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    Ha ha ha! Do you really think they'd have invested in all those chambers for just the 300 diver treatments per year?

    Maybe folk should do a little research before they start wasting money feeding insurance companies and their shareholders!

    Screw the austerity rubbish! That is just a scam to justify cutting of services and the transfer of wealth!

    My reading of the the NHS paper suggests it is clearly steering the reader towards the logic of two specific chambers being over-capacity.
     
  10. JimmE

    JimmE New Member

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    My opinion went back-and-forth somewhat whilst reading it. I do agree that the NHS is very stretched and needs to save money. However, there isn't enough information in the report to know whether it's a good idea or not.

    Initially the map shows significant overlap in 2-hour coverage areas between the two london sites and reading... meaning that one of the London sites and Reading could, theoretically, be closed with a minimal number of cases of divers being unable to get to a chamber within 2 hours (of course, some would have a longer trip than they would have had previously).

    However, given that this supposed 'over capacity' is on the south coast, where I suspect a large proportion of UK recreational diving takes place, perhaps there is a good reason for the extra capacity in this area!

    What would be interesting to see would be the number of divers/non divers treated at each facility, and the distribution of those treatments by date throughout the year... to give an indication of what would happen in the event of, say, two separate DCI incidents requiring treatment where the divers do not arrive at the same location at the same time. If it's a case of having to go to west London vs East London, or Poole/Rugby vs East London, that's a bit of a difference.

    Lastly, I'm only really familiar with DDRC, which is a private organisation/charity which provides the service to the NHS, and what little I know of their fee structure I know includes a cost-per-incident. Are all of the other sites setup in a similar way - i.e. private charities/organisations invoicing the NHS, or are some actually within hospital sites and "run" by the NHS trust themselves? As surely in the case of a private 'contractor' if the majority of the fee is cost-per-incident (presumably there is also some ongoing fee to provide the 'standby' service) then the NHS wouldn't be "closing" the facilities, just ceasing contracts with them... and if those same incidents have to be sent elsewhere, surely the cost saving is perhaps less significant than it's being made out to be?
     
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  11. splinter

    splinter Active Member

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    When I got bent a few years back, the first day I had the chamber to myself. They'd cancelled all the other treatments to put me in the pot. Felt a bit guilty about that tbh.

    The subsequent treatments I was sharing the chamber with 4 other people. All elderly with various complaints that mostly affected their circulation. One old boy had diabetes. He was due to have his leg amputated because of circulation problems common to diabetes. His daughter was a gp and got him to persuade his docs to let him try HBOT. As a result he'd been playing football in the park with his grandkids the day i was hogging the chamber, rather than trying to live with a missing leg.

    Personally I think the NHS should treat everyone for free at the point of service regardless of the cause of their ailment.

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
     
  12. speed098

    speed098 Member

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    The chambers are used to help treat burns. The oxygen rich environment helps speed up the healing process. There are probably a multitude of conditions they can be used for and yet more they do not yet know they can be used for. I can not answer further just new about the burns treatment, but cutting a service is folly if they mothball them they still have to do annual maintenance etc, if they sell them they get a fraction of the value and if another breaks no replacement cover.

    This is yet more pathetic imbeciles in Gov no brain no clue wrecking this country. We have had cuts left right centre and yet our debt is increasing ! Shows just how bad these lot are and nope not anti one party, they are all just as bad as each other only difference is the colour of the tie be it blue red or yellow.
    I can see it being if they close some it costs more than keeping them open.
     
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  13. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    My point about the other ailments - including carbon monoxide poisoning, MS, skin diseases, circulation issues.... - is that they should drive the demand; divers just happen to benefit as a result. If it's *only* divers, then we've got some work to do to persuade the accountants to provide the service.

    They may well be the same accountants who scrapped nurse training and were surprised when the agency bills hit. Something about knowing the cost of everything but the value of nothing.
     
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  14. furryman

    furryman hmmmm
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    Like when the maybot scrabbled around to work out how to reduce immigration to placate the HateMail and sets the salary limits so doctors can’t get visas?
     
  15. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    It's incongruous that a large proportion of readers of that vile rag are significant consumers of the NHS, i.e. are old.

    Is bigotry a symptom of age?
    Yep.
     
  16. JohnL

    JohnL Well-Known Member

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    That would be a emphatic NO from this pensioner. I have spent my life enjoying the diversity around me. I find the bigots are those with strong beliefs, whether political, religious, nationality or life-style. Their problem is that they know that they are right and anyone with other views is wrong. This I've seen in people of all ages.
     
  17. furryman

    furryman hmmmm
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    "All stages left"... "Rich Right, Lean Left"... "Long hose/Primary donate"... "Octopus from the left, primary take"...

    "Nutella"... "Marmite"...

    etc
     
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