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New diver checking in

Discussion in 'New to Scuba Diving' started by AdsDiving833, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. Harvey-NG

    Harvey-NG Member

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    Going back a bit (I'm commenting mainly because I'm quite annoyed but I think I've got something useful to add) about cold water tolerance.


    I don't just dive, but also freedive, and in fact for me, freediving came first. I'd never choose to dive in a wetsuit in a million years, but I'd never dream of freediving in a drysuit. It's all about the right tool for the job for me at least. As great as theoretical knowledge is, it's the practical knowledge that really counts, as you think "ahh fuck that's cold" whilst you're floating about doing not very much at 30m - even in a drysuit.

    Diving makes you cold, swimming makes you warm, use a drysuit or learn to dive in Malta. This isn't just about comfort, it's about safety.
     
    Dave Whitlow likes this.
  2. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    Can't get over seeing the open water swimmers wearing their budgie smugglers in Vobster in January where there's ice on the ground and I'm wearing 7 layers with a suit heater and still freezing my gnads off. They're mad -- or well hard -- I tell ye!
     
  3. JohnL

    JohnL Well-Known Member

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    Shouldn't think that there's anything to smuggle at that temperature.:whistling:
     
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  4. 60plus

    60plus New Member

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    With hindsight my original post should have been worded somewhat differently. I knew what I meant to say but what I wrote did not convey that correctly. A drysuit is the right choice for UK diving in cooler water especially for repetitive dives or extended dive times. But I still maintain that buying an expensive drysuit with very little dive experience is not a wise thing to do. I have just returned from a weeks diving and snorkelling in Madeira. I was perfectly comfortable doing boat dives to over 30m in a 3/2 wetsuit that only cost £30 and is not even a good fit. Others in wetsuits were also comfortable but some in 5mm wetsuits or 5mm semi drys were saying they felt cold and even one in an Otter drysuit said he preferred Madeira in October when the water was warmer. There were 2 other divers on shore dives who were also having problems with cold on their faces or ears despite wearing hoods. One was doing her final OW dives, the other had recently completed his OW. A drysuit would have been unlikely to help either of these divers. I also find I do not need to be active to keep warm. I did a very leisurely shore dive at about 8 to 12m with a German woman who wanted to go slow and take a lot of photos. The dive lasted 60 minutes and my 12L tank went from 205 to 35 Bar. On a more active dive to 12m I would only expect to get about 45 to 50 minutes from a 15L tank.
     
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  5. Doomanic

    Doomanic Dinosaur Wrangler
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    What happened to 50bar at the surface?
     
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  6. 60plus

    60plus New Member

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    The 50 Bar at the surface rule seems to be quite widely ignored. Start the ascent at about 50 bar seems to be accepted practice. I was on a dive where the DM had briefed that the dive would be turned when the first person got to 100 Bar and that as soon as anyone got to 100 Bar they were to signal him. I was on a 15L tank, some were on 12 L tanks. I felt my air consumption was good and when I was getting close to 100 Bar I was surprised none of the 12 L divers had signalled the DM. At a shade under 100 Bar I signalled the DM and we stopped finning. The DM then asked every one to indicate their air, four were well below 100 bar, the worst being at 85. Chatting in the boat afterwards it seemed some had not been looking at their air gauge and others did not want to be the one to end the dive.
     
  7. Dave Whitlow

    Dave Whitlow Well-Known Member

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    Not a 'rule' as there are no rules in diving. I heard the 50 bar convention arose from navy divers with no gauges and using manifolded twinsets.
    Really? Sounds pretty reckless to me! I recall having a dive adopt me at 30m and when I checked his gas he was at 70 bar. I was on CCR and he was on a single tank and I hassled him to the surface. By the time he did surface he had no gas left.
     
    #87 Dave Whitlow, May 29, 2018
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  8. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    Except the skipper's always right!
     
  9. Dave Whitlow

    Dave Whitlow Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, but isn't that a rule of the sea, rather than diving?
     
  10. Tel

    Tel Super Moderator
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    We've already done this yet you are still spouting the same old BS. You don't buy an expensive drysuit
    as a first purchase, you buy a basic one that fits and will do fine for now and even if sold later with a slight
    loss is still cheaper than all those abandoned miserable dives caused by getting cold in a wetsuit.

    As for the rest sure Diver A will feel cold in a 5mm when Diver B is ok in a 3mm, dur we are not all alike.
    I prefer diving wet when the water is warm, but i'm not farmyard stupid enough to do that when the water
    is cold.
    A drysuit would have prevented the ones who were cold despite hood and gloves as this is a symptom
    of the body core being cold and blood doing it's best to keep the main organs going at the expense of the
    extremities.


    50 bar at the surface us an absolute minimum industry standard and has been for decades, so much so that
    it's even highlighted in red. It's not a specific to that dive calculated reserve as such and no good for deco,
    but it is a non-deco resort stuff minimum with enough to get a diver to the surface in a fubar from 30m.

    Start the ascent in the red will eventually bite for a number of factors all proven in actual (not anecdotal
    you know someone) incidents.
    1. The gauge is never accurate with upto 15% error. Some don't even zero when empty, highest recorded
    from an incident was I believe nearly 30% out!!!!.
    2. As cylinder pressure decreases it can get harder to breathe. In one incident a diver thought his primary
    was faulty and in a panic went for his buddies alternate causing a rapid ascent. .
    3. The ascent is variable at best and can be delayed by circumstances. Another incident saw a group of divers
    unable to surface at the single exit point due to a change in surface conditions leading to an extended stop
    at 6m until additional ropes and buoys were put in place.
    4. On the surface you need 10 bar just to keep the BC inflated. Yes anyone should oral inflate or drop
    weightbelt, but we have loads of incidents where divers fail to drop belts etc.

    All the above means whatever dives you do it's a fail to come up under the 50 bar mark and instead of being puffed
    up that you signalled 100 bar, I'd be more impressed if you thumbed the dive and surfaced on 50 instead of 35.

    A lot of punters are idiots they will do the exact opposite of what they are told, which is why dive-discipline is
    so important and why the DM in question has no excuse.

    If he briefed 100 bar he should have done a gas check within the first 10 minutes as it's a given that some will not
    call 100. This would have highlighted (if not already) the heavy breathers and bring then to the front. Having
    identified who it's a lot easier to monitor them and call the dive either by cutting short, going shallower or
    changing the route slightly.

    If a dive school fails to follow basic safety protocols demand as the paying customer that you'll surface on 50 or
    find another dive school.
     
    John F and Tribal Chestnut like this.
  11. Tribal Chestnut

    Tribal Chestnut Well-Known Member
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    All this faux-contrarianism is getting a bit old now. What next? Everyone should carry a snorkel and rattle? Frog-kicking is pointless?

    Yawn.
     
  12. Tel

    Tel Super Moderator
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    Well we've so far had drysuits are overated for UK, best to shove your feet in the sand
    loads of BS about PADI and DM standards all wrapped up in I saw a bloke do it so it must
    be true, so suspect snorkel and rattle will be next :)
     
  13. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    Why is the 50 bar and below marked in red on most SPGs? It appears black when underwater.

    Put my blig red blob up yesterday from 30m. Nice and clear, with plenty of light yet the blob appeared dark grey.

    Shirley the SPG should be marked with an inverted colour to stand out in use.
     
  14. Doomanic

    Doomanic Dinosaur Wrangler
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    If you need bright colours and shiny things to remind you that being low on gas is bad perhaps you should take up golf... :D
     
  15. Tel

    Tel Super Moderator
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    Because red means danger and that's reinforced on the surface so much that even if the actual colour is lost
    underwater, it's still seen as a red warning, even if the eyes see grey/black.
     
  16. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    Only reason I noticed it was because it's the first dive I've done for yonks where it wasn't pitch black on the bottom. Almost didn't need my torch.
     
  17. Tribal Chestnut

    Tribal Chestnut Well-Known Member
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    Too much walking with heavy kit!
     
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  18. JasonP

    JasonP Member

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    Unless you're in the US or Caribbean where it's 500 psi, which is only 35 bar.
     
  19. Tel

    Tel Super Moderator
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    Sort of :p

    While a lot are 500 they also have a lot that are 700 or have a graphic or gradient that goes from 1000 to 500 then changes again to zero.
    Some even have a different colour 1000-500 before red at 500-0. Seems to be quite a variety.

    It's almost universally 50 bar red on this side of the pond with very few exceptions apart from some with no red and I think one brand that
    has 70.
     
  20. JasonP

    JasonP Member

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    I dived in Madeira back in February. The water was about 18C and I was in a wetsuit. It was cold after 45 minutes. We didn't do a second dive.
    I also dived Dartmouth last Sunday. It was 11C. I had started to get a bit cold in my drysuit after 45 mins but only just and I soon warmed up back on board and would have happily done a second dive had we had time.
     

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