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New diver checking in

Discussion in 'New to Scuba Diving' started by AdsDiving833, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. 60plus

    60plus Member

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    Please, please please. I am not anti dry suit, I may end up getting one myself. Nor do I wish to write a very long post with coverage of every detail of what I know or how I came across information.. In making my original post I had looked at the first posts made by the thread originator. I only intended to suggest he step back and give a bit more though before making an expensive purchase. I do not wish to denigrate Adsdiving883 (Adam) in anyway but he is still only in the middle of OW training. Bearing in mind the relatively low cost of hiring gear at Capernwray perhaps hiring is a better option than purchase for a dry suit for the time being. You can get a wet suit for roundabout £100 or less that will do a fair bit of the time. Drysuits start at a lot more than that and if you want made to measure about £900. Adam had commented that he felt wet suits looked expensive.
    I do fully understand how wet and dry suits work, neoprene compression, insulation etc, and I did qualify my use of the word negative by putting the word "just" shortly before it. I still think its fair to say that for most if not all divers the priamary reason for wearing a dry suit is warmth.
    I mentioned my brother. He has done maritime reconnaissance and air sea rescue round the UK, Iceland, Canada, California, South America / Falklands, Australia, Midway and the Eastern Mediterranean for extended periods and briefly in a few other locations. He has also chaired accident investigation committees. Although he retired a few years ago there was already concern that the increasing use of dry suits was leading recreational divers to over extend themselves, because it was enabling some to dive in conditions and or locations where they should not have been diving, for physiological and experience reasons. That possibly tallies with post #40 comments about the HSE tightening up.
    There is always 2 ways (at least) to look at things. Take dive computers. When I was buying my BCD and regs the dive shop felt I should also be buying a computer. The seller was an experienced and keen diver, and I think he genuinely felt it would be in my best interests to have one, not just trying to make a sale. On the other hand my instructor (who has probably done 15,000 + dives) said don't bother with a computer for some time yet, learn to use tables and get a good feel for diving first.
    I just looked up Portimao where my son learned to dive in March a few years ago. The sea temperature in March is only 16 (cooler at diving depths) and only gets up to 22 at hotter times of the year. Despite these temperatures and the fact they have dry suits with argon filling available for extra warmth the training and many dives are done in wet suits. North America too seems keener than the UK in continuing to dive in thick wet suits / farmer johns than the UK.
     
  2. Tel

    Tel Super Moderator
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    Quite a a lot of irony in your posts.

    First you go on about being objective, but that needs to come from personal experience something that
    in the line above shows you clearly have little off. So instead you bolster your argument by non-relevant
    anecdotes of relatives etc. and hearsay from others that again ignores that key point that to be objective
    it has to come from you.

    Nothing wrong with having an opinion, nothing wrong with championing being objective, I do that a lot :)
    What's wrong is spouting advice and opinion to others without having direct experience of both.

    Personally I used a wetsuit first in the UK extensively for my first four years of UK diving racking up a
    good 300+ dives before going dry and have not nor will I ever dive in the UK wet again. My 'objective' opinion
    and advice based on personal experience both as a diver and an Instructor who has taught many hundreds
    of students to dive is that wetsuits are bought purely on cost alone and are not suitable for UK diving.

    The world has moved on from yesteryear and as almost everybody in the UK uses drysuits plenty s/hand
    around that can be bought for the price of a new semi-dry wetsuit, which makes cost more of a historical
    issue and one that should not be encouraged if it means some poor bugger ends up on a RIB post dive
    in a wet wetsuit.
     
  3. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    @Tel - not going against your point about UK = dry. I used to dive with a guy who chose to dive with a wetsuit in the summer as he preferred the feel (?) of a wetsuit over a drysuit.

    As for this time of year: 8 degrees yesterday and we were pretty cold by the end of the dive despite umpteen layers and suit heaters. Was the 45 mins of deco wot did it! I cannot imagine how well hard the divers must have been to dive solely wetsuits back in the 20th century!
     
  4. Mako-JD

    Mako-JD Active Member

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    To much bullshit. I'm calling troll....
     
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  5. barrygoss

    barrygoss Active Member

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    That's not really fair ;) :D ;D

    B
     
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  6. Mako-JD

    Mako-JD Active Member

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    Lol not on wibs @60plus. Btw I Remember diving with wibs at stony in January me in wetsuit @2C. Did 2 dives and bought a drysuit the next week
     
  7. Tel

    Tel Super Moderator
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    It just comes down to the safety of giving blanket advice.
    In the UK a drysuit is all year round same as sealed regs are all-year round.

    We don't know enough about the user or anyone else for that matter who might be reading these posts
    and I do believe we have a responsibility to give as safe advice as possible hence the simple unambiguous
    statement that UK = Drysuit.
     
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  8. John F

    John F Member

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    60 plus.
    I find it so arrogant that you say you have little experience and there you are telling some of the best divers in the country, how it is. My dad used to fly Lancaster’s during the war, that does not mean I am qualified to tell a pilot how to fly.
     
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  9. Tribal Chestnut

    Tribal Chestnut Well-Known Member
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    What would be more of a concern is if a new diver actually heeded his advice.

    Anyway, as some of us have suggested, he seems to be a troll.
     
  10. JasonP

    JasonP Active Member

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    Ha ha, who are they?
     
  11. John F

    John F Member

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    I don’t know, I haven’t found them yet.
     
  12. Tribal Chestnut

    Tribal Chestnut Well-Known Member
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    I thought he meant me :(
     
  13. 60plus

    60plus Member

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    Wow! Light the blue touchpaper and stand back.

    You do not need first hand experience to know about something. I assume all of you know that an Atom bomb makes a big bang and is rather unpleasant. How many of you needed first hand experience of being bombed with one to realise that?

    If you look back to the thread originators initial posts and take my first reply in the context in which it was intended you will realise it was not unreasonable. Adam felt wetsuits were expensive and yet others were suggesting even more expensive drysuits. I suggested an OThree semi dry which several divers I have talked to are very happy with even in cooler waters and these are not that expensive.
    I also know of quite a number of divers who have bought drysuits intending to extend their diving season only to find it did not quite work out. They still got cold, particularly head and hands, they found getting changed in poor weather unpleasant and they found the unpredictable weather made it difficult to organise dives. A club not far from me now trains exclusively drysuit but when they go for dives in cooler water most of the members do not dive, they get maybe 3 or 4 divers and a few shore helpers.
    My fathers experience is perhaps irrelevant to this topic, i mainly included it to indicate that although I am newish to Scuba as a participant I have had links to diving for a long time. My brothers experience is relevant because him and his colleagues are aware of people exposing themselves to undue risk because the protection offered by drysuits isolates them from that until they push their luck too far.

    I watched the BBC 4 programme last week about diving for wrecks in the Irish sea. All that clutter just to spend 10 minutes bottom time is not the type of diving for me, nothing wrong with it at all, and I respect the divers doing it, but my preferred diving is lightly dressed shallower diving with much longer bottom time, ideally in warmer conditions.
     
    #53 60plus, Apr 25, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2018
  14. 60plus

    60plus Member

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    But if you had talked to him and 8th air force pilots you would be in a position to discuss the relative merits day vs night bombing for example.
     
  15. Dave Whitlow

    Dave Whitlow Well-Known Member

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    The posts advising the OP against a wetsuit are based on scores of years of real personal experience by the posters. Diving is not cheap. A drysuit, even second hard, is better than a new wetsuit. We have all seen those shivering divers able to only stay underwater for a short period, and then too cold for additional dives, due to inadequate exposure protection. For UK diving a wet suit is not the right equipment and money spent on one for UK diving is money poorly spent.
    I have dived some of the deep wrecks off Ireland and it is a different type of diving that is not for everyone. As with all diving, the correct equipment is essential and for those dives rebreathers and good boat support are essential with DPVs and heated undersuits being desirable. For dives to 88m my bottom times were 25-45 minutes but some did longer and then paid the price by extended time to surface.

    During the short period of summer where a wetsuit actually makes sense I do get a joy in using one for the shallow no-stop diving I can do with a single tank on my back. However, for most of my UK diving a wetsuit is unsuitable.
     
  16. Tribal Chestnut

    Tribal Chestnut Well-Known Member
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    @60plus you’re now heading off at a tangent - trying to explain that a disadvantage of using a dry suit are the UK diving conditions in winter is specious.

    You are correct in that you do not need first hand experience of dry suits to know a little about them, but your lack of any real experience renders your attempt at putting forth a contentious opinion not only invalid but dangerous.
     
    Dave Whitlow likes this.
  17. becky9

    becky9 Diving bore!

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    Jesus Christ someone shoot me.

    @60plus man the feck up and take it on the chin. We'll think a lot more of you if you do that that this bloody whinging that you are misunderstood, your dads bigger than my dad or what the hell it is other excuse that you are playing. Everyone knows a wetsuit is not the right kit in UK waters, born of oodles of experience actually diving in the uk climate. x
     
    Dave Whitlow likes this.
  18. Dave Whitlow

    Dave Whitlow Well-Known Member

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    :eek: Request noted :)
    You are being very generous today :)

    To be fair, in August, a wetsuit is fine. With single tank and 7kg of lead it is so easy doing shore dives off the local beach. For anything more interesting, or the rest of the year, it is a poor idea.
     
  19. becky9

    becky9 Diving bore!

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    :) hehe

    You know most of us own numerous wetsuits, but for those that have one working drysuit, when it needs repair work that we don't feel happy doing ourselves so we have to send away, we try to beg borrow or steal another drysuit to use in the meantime (or sit it out). We generally don't reach for those wetsuits because that would be stupid. Witness Alexs post recently. You also don't see the RNLI poncing around in wetsuits on their atlantic class or otherwise, but that would be fecking crazy too and they aren't even diving!

    I'm sure if my life or someones elses life was at stake or I needed to put food on the table I'd endure, but we don't dive to endure. We aslo need to make sure of being functional and attentive for ours and our buddies sakes, not create issues of our own making. x
     
  20. JohnL

    JohnL Well-Known Member

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    Or to put it another way, why don't we just draw a line under this thread and ignore any more comments from the originator. Either that or arrange for handbags at dawn.:whistling:
     

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