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Most sensible tech progression...

Discussion in 'Technical Diving' started by Alex Denny, Jun 2, 2017.

  1. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    IMHO Fundies is a great course, got loads out of it.

    However, it's a course for a certain point in your diving career. It's perfectly possible to gain the same experience and skills through other routes which @Alex Denny may well have travelled.

    Whilst GUE trained divers are of a high standard, there's plenty of non-GUE divers who are just as good. Also, it has to be said, that GUE is a specialist organisation, focussing on specific types of diving: not sidemount, general purpose CCR, solo diving, uk caving, and do very few recreational level courses.
     
  2. Dave Whitlow

    Dave Whitlow Well-Known Member

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    I agree TDI Helitrox or IANTD ART would be the way to go. There is plenty of good diving within those depths.

    I agree with this too. Inflexibility and blown out dives make OC trimix a flawed plan likely to result in big gas bills and a growing collection of twinsets. If you find the desire to go deeper then CCR is the way.

    I did IANTD ART. After a season of diving to that depth I did TDI Normoxic Trimix with Mark Powell. A few months later went to Malin head and soon after returning I booked a recreational trimix CCR ticket with Rich Stevenson.
     
  3. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    Question: is the BSAC Advanced Deco Procedures course the same level as the TDI course?

    If so, then @Alex Denny could probably skip Helitrox and move straight into extended Range & Normoxic Trimix. Probably a question to pose to Mark Powell.
     
  4. Alex Denny

    Alex Denny Active Member

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    I doubt it is. It doesn't really cover helium use as a non metabolic gas, it's deco or thermal properties which I guess must all be introduced in the TDI course?
     
  5. timmyg

    timmyg Super Moderator
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    As I said in my first post, he could just do Helitrox as a standalone, or, progress onto Trimix.


    TG

    Sent from my iPhone using timmytalk
     
  6. timmyg

    timmyg Super Moderator
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    Just to add, his ADP qual is limited to 40m as he's a SD. If he was a DL then he could do accelerated deco to 50m.


    TG

    Sent from my iPhone using timmytalk
     
  7. Alex Denny

    Alex Denny Active Member

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    I mentioned DL earlier... I actually have one more bit to sign off (Dive Planning and Management) then I'm done. Unfortunately I can't make the SDC I was booked on any more. Doh!
     
  8. timmyg

    timmyg Super Moderator
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    Must have missed that bit, I remembered the SD/Rescue piece. However, the depth info was mainly for the clarity of everyone else who's non BSAC.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  9. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    From what I saw of you in the water today, you're well sorted with the fundamentals; finning, trim, buoyancy.

    Wondering if your next step is straight into Extended Range / Trimix.
     
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  10. WillDive

    WillDive Member

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    GUE do courses starting at non diver to rec trimix, how many courses do you think they need?
     
  11. Tel

    Tel Super Moderator
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    He's talking about the low number of basic rec courses that are actually run, not the level itself.
     
  12. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    How many are actually run vs PADI, BSAC, and all the others?

    In the UK places like Wraysbury (and everywhere else) are rammed full at the moment with people doing Open Water equivalent courses. I've no idea of numbers, but it wouldn't surprise me if 5000 people were trained as OW divers in the UK each year, maybe as many as 10,000 trained up to Rescue Diver / Sports Diver / equivalent. GUE would teach hardly any people at this recreational level.

    GUE, in Fundies, does have a unique niche and undoubtedly improve standards for divers making the transition from Recreational to Technical -- improving standards for all agencies as a result.

    Recreational training has very different drivers to technical diving. On the whole, recreational divers aren't as committed as technical divers so price and availability are key over quality, so it's not surprising that GUE's Rec courses aren't taught that often.

    This isn't a dig at GUE, this is just the reality of entry-level training.
     
  13. Vanny

    Vanny Active Member

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    Not much to add , just a bit of personal experience/view. Sounds like your pretty squared away with skills so I doubt an "improve your basic skills course" is going to give you much value. I found my self in a similar position a few years ago. Kinda maxed out a twin set and deco stage. So looking for helium. It sounds like that's where you are.

    A guy in my club is similar , he spoke to BSAC HQ and got onto a sports/explorer mixed gas course that hadn't even been advertised yet. So he's staying OC for the mo. It does look like BSAC tech courses are swinging more to CCR. A couple of years ago there's was hardly any, the emphasis being on OC but lately it seems to favour CCR stuff.

    I agonised for quite a while whether there was any benefit in me going ccr. The mix side appealed but could I justify it ? Also it felt like I was not going to progress my diving going ccr but move side ways until I gained experience to gain mix training. Eventually made the decision to go ccr , took about 9 months to get myself ready for a mix course. I wouldn't change what I did and really enjoy diving ccr.

    If you think that's where your diving's going then think seriously about whether ccr may suit you. It's not everyone's cup of tea if it's not for you then one of the normoxic OC courses will see you extend your diving. I think there's still a "am I suitable for rebreather diving" questionnaire on AP's website. Not really specific to AP units but questions if your suitable for ccr. The qualifications you already have would probably entitle you to a 45mtr air dil deco ccr ticket so you wouldn't loose anything , just build experience to get to mix. Going OC mix will extend your diving now.


    Shout if you wanna ask anything
     
  14. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    What are the BSAC equivalents of the following?

    Entry-level technical courses:
    • TDI Advanced Nitrox, Deco Procedures + Helitrox? (I know there's ADP, but is it equivalent?)
    • Ditto ART from IANTD
    • MOD1 - rebreather intro level, air dil (is that IANTD - seems to be a generic term nowadays)
    Intermediate level technical courses:
    • TDI Extended Range + Normoxic Trimix, down to 60 metres
    • Other agency equivalents (IANTD, even PADI)
    • MOD2 - for rebreathers - intermediate level - Helium dil down to ~60 metres
    Advanced level technical courses:
    • TDI Advanced Trimix - down to 100 metres
    • MOD3 - advanced deep rebreathers
    Cave & overhead courses:
    • Cavern
    • Intro to cave
    • Full cave
     
  15. Dave Whitlow

    Dave Whitlow Well-Known Member

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    BSAC have comparable course to all these except they don't do holes in the ground

    It is simpler to look here http://bfy.tw/CEJo
     
  16. clique

    clique Active Member

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    Taking the bait, all info here. The equivalent courses aren't like for like, the technical agencies are less restrictive.

    Looking at that page, the OC and CCR qualifications are the same (although there is a distinction between OC and CCR).
     
  17. Alex Denny

    Alex Denny Active Member

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    Definitely no cave qualifications from BSAC...
     
  18. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    The course specifications aren't particularly detailed - no mention of the number of stages, course duration, standards, etc. Also the first two are pretty close in terms of gasses (20/30 & 18/35) and depths (50m & 60m).

    I assume these are done at the regional/national level and not club level as you'll need real specialists to teach them.
     
  19. clique

    clique Active Member

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    Course syllabus' are given to the right hand side of the page I linked up there (not on the actual course info page (except OC SMG, where they've used a different page format and it is).

    As to being done at a regional / national level, over to @timmyg for that one.
     
  20. Dave Whitlow

    Dave Whitlow Well-Known Member

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    the supporting materials are generally to an excellent quality, often better than their counterparts and limited only by instructor availability..
    they can be done an any level, subject to approved instructor availablity, and also in BSAC centres. after all, the guys writing these course are also club and regional instructors.,
     

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