1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Further Training

Discussion in 'Technical Diving' started by Harvey-NG, May 7, 2018.

  1. Harvey-NG

    Harvey-NG Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2018
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    10
    Tim, I see you're able to offer (although not necessarily right now) both a joint decompression procedures and helitrox course, as well as a joint adv nitrox and helitrox - would you recommend one route over the other?

    Also, if AN + helitrox is too much of a jump, would fundies cover that gap or is intro to tech better suited in prep for those particular courses since they're from the same agency?

    H
     
  2. timmyg

    timmyg Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Messages:
    442
    Likes Received:
    185
    Re. training, it’s either AN/DP or AN/Helitrox. The difference between the 2 is the helium aspect.

    ITT is not a pre-requisite but it would depend on your current level. If you’ve dived twins before you could go straight in but equally you could have developed bad habits. If you’ve not you could equally go straight in and see how you get on. I operate a deferred pass system so if you don’t meet the standard in certain areas you just reshow those areas. You don’t pay for a new course.

    If you wanted to do fundies instead then it wouldn’t do you any harm. As previously discussed it would give you a solid a solid base. Horses for courses really.


    TG

    Sent from my iPhone using timmytalk
     
    Dave Whitlow likes this.
  3. Doomanic

    Doomanic Dinosaur Wrangler
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2009
    Messages:
    5,612
    Likes Received:
    2,009
    Yeah, he wasn’t prepared to lower them enough.
     
    Andy Stevenson likes this.
  4. Dave Whitlow

    Dave Whitlow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,076
    Likes Received:
    400
    We both know he'd have had no problem meeting the highest achievement standard measured in the workshop ('black' is +- 0.3m) as that isn't too challenging for a well sorted technical diver.

    Like many BSAC (and other agency) courses the material is well considered but how effective it is delivered reflects more on the instructor than the material. Yesterday I was diving with a BSAC instructor (quite new to CCR) and I am sure his delivery of the course would have been excellent. However, I can think of others who would struggle to meet the lower achievement standards themselves and would utterly fail to deliver a useful workshop.
     
  5. Harvey-NG

    Harvey-NG Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2018
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ah, I see. I suppose intro to tech is a lot cheaper, but then fundies is so highly recommended.
     
  6. Dale Martin

    Dale Martin Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    25
    I did ITT and AN/Helitrox with Tim last year and he’s a great instructor.
    I went in with no twinset experience at all and the course progression felt very natural.
    His blog’s worth a look too.
     
    Nick Ward, Dave Whitlow and timmyg like this.
  7. AndyW

    AndyW Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    34
    I did ITT with Mark Powell before doing AN/He with him. A couple of years later I did a fundies course.

    It's difficult to review them / recommend one over the other. People go into theses courses with different experience and look to get different things out of them.

    The TDI stuff I did with Mark changed the way I thought about diving (*insert other cliches here*). The ITT course was relatively gentle and, with it being two days, was (as it says) an introduction. It wasn't set up to have you mastering skills. However, once I did the AN/He course later in the year, it completely changed the diving I was doing. I still say that this is, by far, the hardest course I've done. I've used it get some really good dives on wrecks that were previously out of my reach

    Fundies was a breeze in comparison, but only because the earlier stuff had given me such a good base to work from.

    However, had I done fundies first, I've no doubt that I wouldn't even have considered the AN/He and would have gone for Tech1 instead. Fundies is the better course in terms of the way it's run, structure, content etc.

    In short, I've added nothing to the debate. Have a chat with some instructors, find one that you think will work well for you and go for it. If you just want a super solid base of skills for 30m diving then fundies sounds right. ITT to tech on it's own may not do it for you but followed by AN/He opens a lot of doors and lets you get out and build experience with more adventurous diving.

    I've seen some really shonky training taking place in the entry level tech kind of area. Find someone who's recommended
     
    Harvey-NG likes this.
  8. Harvey-NG

    Harvey-NG Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2018
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    10
    If I wasn't already busy, I'd be booked in to go to TekCamp in September to do a little bit of 'instructor shopping'.
     
  9. AndyW

    AndyW Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    34
    Save your money.. buy a CCR :whistling:
     
    Dave Whitlow likes this.
  10. Harvey-NG

    Harvey-NG Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2018
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    10
    I'm putting off a rebreather try dive for as long as possible, I know it's going to take over my life at some point.
     
  11. AndyW

    AndyW Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    34
    Honestly, if you're considering it then you need to think about how much you're willing to sink into OC.
    CCR is not the answer for everyone and it's not the best tool for every job.

    There's a lot of diving to be done in AN/He type depths that makes sense OC. It's simple and argueably cheaper; but if you're going to jump to a CCR a year later then it's money down the drain.

    I wouldn't point anyone towards full trimix on OC unless they're totally commited to GUE (or similar). If you reckon you've got a good few years before you want to start pushing into normoxic type depths then by all means crack on. (although I think the money spent on "tek camp" could be better spent going diving)
     
  12. timmyg

    timmyg Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Messages:
    442
    Likes Received:
    185
    As someone who has done TEKCamp as an attendee when I was already a TDI Instructor, and was safety diver for 3 further events, I wholeheartedly disagree with the above statement.

    Ok you done get a c-card at the end of it, but the knowledge and skills you’ll gain across a whole spectrum of areas is not to be sniffed at.


    TG

    Sent from my iPhone using timmytalk
     
  13. AndyW

    AndyW Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    34
    I've got no doubt about it being great. I've never been so,in fairness I've got no firsthand experience. If OP is going to do a bunch of courses anyway I'd see it as diminishing returns in terms of value. That £300-£600 ticket would be better spent on boats... imo.

    4 days at tek camp + ITT + AN/He
    ITT + An/He + week in Scapa

    I know where my money would be.

    Although I'm sure I'd like Tekcamp and would benefit from it. I wouldn't choose it to spend my limited money on.
     
  14. timmyg

    timmyg Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Messages:
    442
    Likes Received:
    185
    That is generally the opinion from those that haven’t been. For those that have they can’t recommend it enough.


    TG

    Sent from my iPhone using timmytalk
     
    Harvey-NG likes this.
  15. Herrhair

    Herrhair New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    6
    PM sent 're GUE Fundamentals.

    Regards

    Neil Powell
     
  16. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
    UKD Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2014
    Messages:
    5,563
    Likes Received:
    1,231
    Point about AN+DP/Helitrox; the real benefit of this course, IMHO, is to massively extend bottom times on typical recreational depths (30-40 metres). For example an hour bottom time at 30 metres (compared with 30 mins on 32% / 20 mins on air)
     
  17. splinter

    splinter Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2010
    Messages:
    314
    Likes Received:
    130
    Resurrecting this thread to add a recommendation for AN & Helitrox, specifically with Rectotec & @timmyg. I did the course last weekend. Tim was a great instructor and we were lucky enough to have a second instructor along called Grant Cooke. They were both really helpful, offering a good mix of instruction, encouragement and motivation.

    The course itself was very challenging. The first dives we were learning new skills and the last two putting them into practice, while we suffered 'mysterious' failures and problems underwater. It was unlike any course I've done previously. This was best illustrated in the difference from the first dive, where us 3 students lined up on a platform waiting for the instructor to tell us what to do and the last dive, which was planned by the three of us as a team and we had to deal with any issues as a team.

    To anyone thinking of taking the course, I'd say get your core skills squared away first Good buoyancy, trim and finning technique will make it a lot easier. I kind of wish I'd done intro to tech or fundies first, but it's doable without.

    I learned loads from Tim and Grant and I reckon this was the most useful course I've done. My kit has been fettled and set up better, my skills have improved and my confidence in both planning dives and dealing with issues is better. I've no hesitation in recommending both it and Rectotec/timmyg for anyone thinking of progressing their diving further.
     
  18. timmyg

    timmyg Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Messages:
    442
    Likes Received:
    185
    Cheers for the write up buddy, but regarding your comment about ITT/Fundies, normally I would agree with you but the 3 of you were some of the most solid divers I've seen at dive 1 of this course. Grant and I then had a crossroads to face. Do the minimum to get you a pass (which would have been easy) or really push the 3 of you so you get maximum benefit. That's why on the last dive there were 9 'failures' by me thrown in, not forgetting the 3 real ones you had (primary & backup failure & tangled wet notes).

    I also think that the kit 'fettling' is an understatement, especially given that you had already done a course prior to this, but the 3 of you needed it. Because of that it was only 1 dive on day 1 but getting your kit right proved invaluable I think you'll agree.

    Safe diving.

    TG
     
    Wibble, splinter and Doomanic like this.
  19. splinter

    splinter Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2010
    Messages:
    314
    Likes Received:
    130
    I definitely agree about sorting the kit. I thought my harness was setup reasonably close and was surprised by how much we adjusted it. I felt a lot better afterwards and it was a real help with the rest of the course and well worth the time.

    I appreciate your comments about being solid divers too. You mentioned this at the time and it was a real encouragement and confidence booster which really helped a lot. The other two students were also a great support and I think the challenges we faced really helped us to become a team by the last dive.

    I was exhausted by the end, but really enjoyed the whole course.

    Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
     
  20. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
    UKD Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2014
    Messages:
    5,563
    Likes Received:
    1,231
    And that is exactly why you choose the instructor.

    It ain't open water Tonto! You absolutely need instructors who really know their onions; who will push you beyond the minimum course requirements and who adapt the course on the fly.
     
    timmyg and splinter like this.

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Our UKDivers community has been around for many years and prides itself on offering unbiased, helpful discussion among people of all disciplines and abilities. We are working every day to make sure our community is one of the best and friendliest around.
  • Support us!

    The management works very hard to make sure the community continues to run reliably. Care to support us? All donations go to the running costs of the forum: hosting charges, software maintenance, etc. We'd really appreciate it!

    Choose option:  

    UKD Username: