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First BP&W setup £3-500 budget? (or XDeep Ghost)

Discussion in 'Dive Equipment' started by Gaz, Jan 11, 2018.

  1. John F

    John F New Member

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    Hi TG,
    I don't know it has no markings or brand on it. it is a bungee wing, so i was thinking of taking the bladder out to see if that has anything on it.

    I am using an O three neoprene dry suit, maybe not as flexible as others, I can reach the valves, just quite a struggle, must be old age.

    John
     
  2. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    It seems that, certainly in my experience of diving, that wing sizes have reduced over the years. I'll admit that my circle of dive buddies could be/are abnormal.

    The most common wing I've seen on twinsets is 40lb/18kg with a few diving slightly larger 50lb/22kg wings. I think the reason for very large wings -- such as the 96lb/44kg monsters -- was historic due to large umbilical torch batteries required to power halogen bulbs. Fashion probably played a part.

    Remember 1kg of water is about a litre.

    We now try to dive neutrally weighted, being overweighted really does make life harder as you need loads of gas in the wing to compensate which is then a real mare to control when changing depths.

    Certainly when doing really deep dives the initial weight of the gas (where you may have four full stages and a twinset which is approx 4kg + about 10 kg in the stages = 14 kg of gas) would dictate a larger wing. (Or being a cock and trying to dive with a steel stage -- see the "things I lurned" thread)

    The other wing thing is shape. The consensus is doughnut shaped with a few being happy with the old horseshoe shape. Reason is gas migrates between the sides more easily (automatically) on a doughnut, but may need to be explicitly 'poured' from one side of a horseshoe to another (automatic if your trim is poor, i.e. feet down, more work if you dive flat).

    And bungeed wings are mainly needed to control the massive amount of 'canvas' material in a big wing. The smaller doughnuts don't need this.
     
  3. JasonP

    JasonP Member

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    The top of the wing should make no difference to your ability to reach the valves. They're all much of a muchness. I would suggest changing the shoulder strap length.

    Sent from my LG-H990 using Tapatalk
     
  4. timmyg

    timmyg Super Moderator
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    John. I also dive an O’Three. Nothing wrong with the flexibility in the suit. It could be s mixture of body position, technique, cylinder positioning, harness adjustment, undersuit fit just to start.

    I’ve just checked your location; just down the road really. Unfortunately I’ve just left Camberley for 3 weeks but I’d be happy to meet up and have a look over a few bits when I’m back.


    TG

    Sent from my iPhone using timmytalk
     
    Wibble and Nick Ward like this.
  5. John F

    John F New Member

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    Hi All,
    Thanks for the advice, all makes sense.
    TG I would like to take you up on your offer, if you could let me know when your back in Camberley I could pop over.
    John
     
  6. jb2cool

    jb2cool Moderator
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    Surrey/Berkshire beers? I'm close to Tim too
     
  7. timmyg

    timmyg Super Moderator
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    Sounds good


    TG

    Sent from my iPhone using timmytalk
     
  8. nickb

    nickb Active Member

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    There you go with that 4 stages bollocks again.

    Show me an OC dive plan that you ever intend to actually do that involves carrying all that gas.
     
  9. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    However, you asked... It's only for a larf and it is lunchtime

    Whack in this plan; 75 metres for 35m bottom time.....

    DIVE PLAN
    Decompression model: ZHL16-B + GF
    Conservatism = GF 50/80

    Dec to 75m (4) Trimix 15/55 18m/min descent.
    Level 75m 30:50 (35) Trimix 15/55 1.27 ppO2, 22m ead, 28m end
    Asc to 45m (38) Trimix 15/55 -9m/min ascent.
    Stop at 45m 2:40 (41) Triox 25/40 1.37 ppO2, 14m ead, 23m end
    Stop at 42m 2:00 (43) Triox 25/40 1.29 ppO2, 13m ead, 21m end
    Stop at 39m 2:00 (45) Triox 25/40 1.22 ppO2, 12m ead, 19m end
    Stop at 36m 2:00 (47) Triox 25/40 1.14 ppO2, 10m ead, 18m end
    Stop at 33m 2:00 (49) Triox 25/40 1.07 ppO2, 9m ead, 16m end
    Stop at 30m 2:00 (51) Triox 25/40 0.99 ppO2, 8m ead, 14m end
    Stop at 27m 2:00 (53) Triox 25/40 0.92 ppO2, 6m ead, 12m end
    Stop at 24m 5:00 (58) Triox 25/40 0.85 ppO2, 5m ead, 10m end
    Stop at 21m 7:00 (65) Nitrox 50 1.54 ppO2, 10m ead
    Stop at 18m 2:00 (67) Nitrox 50 1.39 ppO2, 8m ead
    Stop at 15m 8:00 (75) Nitrox 50 1.24 ppO2, 6m ead
    Stop at 12m 10:00 (85) Nitrox 50 1.10 ppO2, 4m ead
    Stop at 9m 15:00 (100) Nitrox 50 0.95 ppO2, 2m ead
    Stop at 6m 68:00 (168) Nitrox 80 1.28 ppO2, 0m ead
    Surface (169) Nitrox 80 -6m/min ascent.

    OTU's this dive: 223
    CNS Total: 83.4%
    Gas density: 5.4g/l

    4547.1 ltr Trimix 15/55
    1109.7 ltr Triox 25/40
    1159.5 ltr Nitrox 50
    1298.2 ltr Nitrox 80
    8114.6 ltr TOTAL


    With bottom stage supplying 1500 ltrs leaving 3100 consumed from backgas.

    So far, so good....

    Now the lost gas calculations. As the bottom stage is breathed down first it can be ignored. Not the other stages though (assume ali80s with max 2000 litres available)..
    Gas consumptions
    No failures - normal dive - OK
    4547.1 ltr Trimix 15/55
    1109.7 ltr Triox 25/40
    1159.5 ltr Nitrox 50
    1298.2 ltr Nitrox 80
    8114.6 ltr TOTAL

    Lost or missing deco gas: 50
    4547.1 ltr Trimix 15/55

    2632.6 ltr Triox 25/40 <<-- more than is available
    1820.2 ltr Nitrox 80
    9000 ltr TOTAL

    Lost or missing deco gas: 80
    4547.1 ltr Trimix 15/55
    1109.7 ltr Triox 25/40

    2917.2 ltr Nitrox 50 <<-- more than is available
    8574.1 ltr TOTAL

    Lost or missing deco gas: 25/40
    5769.4 ltr Trimix 15/55
    880.2 ltr Nitrox 50
    1679.1 ltr Nitrox 80
    8328.7 ltr TOTAL



    Ooops; diver doesn't have enough gas if the 50 or 80 breaks.


    So,@nickb, you're absolutely right; adding a bottom stage just exacerbates the problem of not having enough other gasses to cope with failures.

    The only plan that works for 75m would be 25 mins bottom time max.

    Gas consumptions
    No failures - normal dive - OK
    3280.8 ltr Trimix 15/55
    988.0 ltr Triox 25/40
    541.1 ltr Nitrox 50
    1106.0 ltr Nitrox 80
    5915.9 ltr TOTAL

    Lost or missing deco gas: 50
    3280.8 ltr Trimix 15/55

    1922.1 ltr Triox 25/40 <<-- only just enough
    1266.3 ltr Nitrox 80
    6469.3 ltr TOTAL

    Lost or missing deco gas: 80
    3280.8 ltr Trimix 15/55
    988.0 ltr Triox 25/40
    1972.5 ltr Nitrox 50 <<-- only just enough
    6241.4 ltr TOTAL

    Lost or missing deco gas: 25/40
    4055.8 ltr Trimix 15/55
    585.2 ltr Nitrox 50
    1090.4 ltr Nitrox 80
    5731.5 ltr TOTAL



    Good lesson @nickb
     
  10. Vanny

    Vanny Active Member

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    The only plan that works for 75 mtrs is ccr. The cost of that lot doesn’t bear thinking about. Times have moved on , there’s better kit choices than OC.
     
  11. Dave Whitlow

    Dave Whitlow Well-Known Member

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    Be careful, or you'll be arranging to meet him at the bottom of this place!

     
  12. nickb

    nickb Active Member

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    Most of the zero to hero types that do the bottom of Dorothea could do it with 12s and an AL80 of 50% (or a 7 if their RMV was decent enough). I'd probably take 40s of 50% & O2 or 32% & 80%.
     
  13. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    Don't disagree. But....

    For those depths you need to be MOD3 capable and it means that an experienced OC diver is ~2 years and £10k+ short of doing a dive (CCR + training + experience)

    Whilst spending >£100 for the open circuit gas for 20 mins on the bottom is a lot, it's still available to me to do this weekend should I choose [to push it].

    But yes; for a suitably qualified CCR diver the gas costs are trivial.
     
  14. AndyW

    AndyW Member

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    Guys.... the OP wants a a lightweight backplate and wing. He couldn't give a shit about how to do a 75m dive.
     
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  15. Dave Whitlow

    Dave Whitlow Well-Known Member

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    ..... off topic a bit too much :)
     
  16. nickb

    nickb Active Member

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    Are you new to this internet thing?
     
  17. Vanny

    Vanny Active Member

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    Since when’s that mattered ?? :mooning:
     
  18. Tribal Chestnut

    Tribal Chestnut Active Member
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    68min stop at 6m!

    I'll never make a proper diver!
     
  19. Dave Whitlow

    Dave Whitlow Well-Known Member

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    :) Every diver is a proper diver!

    Suboptimal equipment with a poor selection of gases. Better plans are available. I've never understood the fixation folk have with 50% and 80% on deeper dives, and CCR has a place.
     
  20. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    In what way?
     

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