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Doing a DiveMASTER...

Discussion in 'General Scuba Diving' started by Wibble, Apr 25, 2018.

  1. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    having a stressy time in the office at the moment. Lots on and way too much management and political challenges...

    Dropping into my inbox was an advert from a dive shop in Spain which I've used for holiday diving in the past. Pleasant memories came flooding back of warm, stress-free diving -- sun, sea and good food and wine.... ahhhhhhh, that's better....

    On this advert was a piece about their DiveMASTER course, minimum of 60 dives required... the interesting part was they said it's a minimum of 15 days course duration. Off I drift again, warm sun, sea, pleasant days, easy diving, no office, no managers.... oh to say sod the lot of you, I'm off for the whole of July to do a 'course' and live the dream....

    So what on earth can they be doing for those 15 days? What is the point of a DiveMASTER course? What could a moderately experienced decompression/trimix/solo/cave diver learn, aside from how to apply suncream?

    3..2..1.. back in the room...
     
    jps likes this.
  2. jb2cool

    jb2cool Moderator
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    How to fill cylinders, how to babysit new divers, how to hand out promotional flyers, how to staff the till in the shop.......
     
  3. Nick Ward

    Nick Ward Active Member

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    how to hand over wads of cash without appearing too gullible....
     
  4. Dave Whitlow

    Dave Whitlow Well-Known Member

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    and how to promote courses
    and you might discover a new kit configuration to try ;)
     
    nickb, Tribal Chestnut and Nick Ward like this.
  5. toby43

    toby43 New Member

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    take the month off and go cave diving in Mexico is what I would do :) Did the DM a few years back. Unless your going to progress with the instructor route a bit of a waste of time as you have to keep paying PADI due and higher insurance to stay current. If I was doing it again and wanted to instruct for fun I would go the BSAC route.
     
  6. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    Now that sounds like real fun...

    I suppose I could go up to Scapa and do a double act with @nickb -- the Chuckle Brothers!
     
  7. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    It gets worse... As I was cycling in to the office this morning, birds singing, warmish, I passed a garage with a Nissan Navara for sale. So in my head I've bought the dive wagon and taking July in the warm with all those parties, diving, sandals....
     
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  8. Tribal Chestnut

    Tribal Chestnut Well-Known Member
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    What’s wrong with the Forester?
     
  9. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    Nothing, excellent motor.

    However, in my fantasy, it would look a bit naff with a couple of surfboards on the roof!
     
  10. nickb

    nickb Active Member

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    Don’t even think about it. I’m having a good time here, please don’t ruin it for me!
     
  11. barrygoss

    barrygoss Active Member

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    #crowdfundtogetwibbletoscapa

    ;)

    B
     
    Iain Denham, Griffalo, becky9 and 7 others like this.
  12. Doomanic

    Doomanic Dinosaur Wrangler
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    Hell, if it pisses on Nick’s chips I’ll pay the bloody lot! ;)
     
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  13. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    Anyway, being serious for a minute, back to the original question...

    Is a PADI DiveMaster the equivalent to the BSAC Dive Leader? They're both CMAS 3* for recreational diving and neither require solid "technical" skills.

    AIUI, the PADI DiveMaster is effectively the first rung on the '"professional" ladder where you can 'lead' recreational divers around a dive site and you can assist a qualified instructor on basic recreational courses.
     
  14. Dave Whitlow

    Dave Whitlow Well-Known Member

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    BSAC Dive Leader is largely about planning and management of diving and covers tides, weather, dive management, rescue management and oxygen administration and also includes decompression diving to 50m max depth and the expectation of buoyancy within +/- 0.5m.
     
  15. jb2cool

    jb2cool Moderator
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  16. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    That's considerably more advanced than the PADI DiveMaster qualification which is recreational only (no deco, max 40m, doesn't specify mixed gases).

    From the (quite frankly completely useless) PADI website:
    i.e. it's general flannel and waffle; there's no standards specified anywhere on that website, which speaks volumes of their attitude to quality.

    Amazing that the HSE lists BSAC Dive Leader as CMAS 2*, yet the PADI Rescue Diver (which is pretty much all included as part of the BSAC Sports Diver course) is also listed as CMAS 2*. I suppose that's BSAC's senior management not being on the ball with the HSE.



    Note to BSAC: your new website is shit - have you deliberately tried to make it worse than PADI's?
     
  17. Tel

    Tel Super Moderator
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    Better way of looking at is is PADI is serial, BSAC is parallel
    Professional/Instructor grades in bold

    PADI - Single line of progression
    OW, AOW, Rescue (i'll ignore MSD) > Professional DM, AI, OWSI, MSDT, STAFF, CD

    BSAC - Parrallel progression
    OD
    Sport > ADI
    Dive Leader > OWI
    Advanced > Advanced Instructor
    1st Class > National Instructor

    So once you've got rescue in PADI you can do DM, but if you get Sport in BSAC the highest you can go to is Assistant Diving Instructor.
    To gain Open water Instructor you'd need to get Dive Leader

    Each Instructor level has to be matched by the equivalent diver grade and these have set criteria to prevent becoming the same as a PADI
    OWSI that has done nowt but resort try-dives.

    For crossover purposes BSAC accept DM as the equivilent to Dive Leader, but will involve some work to go over deco etc and any skills
    missing. Do it the other way around and PADI will always downgrade as they want to sell the next course. Typically those that go from BSAC
    to PADI are on a career path so will tend to go low to learn the PADI syllabus etc.


    As for the CMAS anomaly this is a historical/political issue not a diver grade one that might have been sorted if it wasn't for CMAS demanding
    that BSAC ditch BSAC Japan and BSAC Korea, two chunky money earners. BSAC (ironicly a founder member) got thrown out and with no
    route to correct went via the European Underwater Federation and CEN/ISO to gain the same status as CMAS 3* for Dive Leader.
    If you look at the notes in almost every section you'll see Dive Leader is set at Part 3 Level 3. This has nowt to so with HSE or BSAC management
    who have spent a lot of effort in trying to make this right, it's entirely down to CMAS being a pain.
     
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  18. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    Thanks @Tel very useful.

    Puts it all into perspective; the PADI DM's really only of use to people who want to "live the dream" in the PADI fold. Pretty much useless outside of that as the skills are mediocre and "very recreational".
     
  19. Tel

    Tel Super Moderator
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    Yep DM is touted as a professional assistant and TBH can be the best level to do for fun (not going to get
    rich that's for sure) in an active dive school as while sure it has the negatives of filling cylinders DM's are
    more likely to be the guides, while Instructors, well they teach.

    Plenty of PADI divers with little exposure to other agencies suck up the PR hype and either end up doing MSD
    or get the misguided idea that Divemaster actually means they are a master of diving lol :)

    Those that did get what was going on went sideways into the likes of BSAC/TDI/IANTD etc. and as Tec took a
    hold PADI started to worry that they were getting left behind, so ditched there non-deco status and
    started Tec. So nowadays those ingrained in the PADI ethos have two paths, Professional or Tec
     
  20. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    I must admit that I've always considered a DiveMaster as not. Sure, some -- those who've gone on to properly develop their skills -- are good, but the DiveMaster's pretty much a non-qualification for diving.

    Have a similar opinion about YachtMasters too. Seen too many crap ones and too many really competent sailors who aren't YachtMasters.
     

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