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Best Training, best Instructor.

Discussion in 'General Scuba Diving' started by big si, Jul 22, 2011.

  1. big si

    big si Well-Known Member

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    I just thought I would post this thread as Iv noticed alot of newbies on the site lately and wish them the best and good instruction.

    So who do you think provides the best instruction and training ???

    Well IMO from experience and wasting a great deal of money in the past, till I got wise, I will tell you what I think.

    PADI are excellent at getting people in the water but I wouldnt stay with them after OW.

    GUE although Iv never trained with them from what I know from the coure materials and training they are EXCELENT but my choice for not training with them was they werent around when I started diving. They do seem to be quite pricey and the standard gasses makes diving expencive but the standard of training is the BEST no matter who the instructor is.

    PSAI If your interested on going down the extended range route then these guys know there stuff on deep air with a certification route down to 73m. However NOT for everyone only divers with the skill and mind set are accepted onto the course.

    INSTRUCTORS well Iv met a few but im only going to mention one as I think he is the best instructor iv met and thats Mark Powell.

    I'll finish by saying diving is expencive, equipment is expencive so the best advice at the start of your hobbie can be very valuble so im hoping some experienced divers will add to this thread to make diving cheaper and more enjoyable for newcommers. :)
     
    Chris Handzel likes this.
  2. Steppenwolf

    Steppenwolf Well-Known Member

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    I think the diving instruction, irrespective of the club, depends on the individual - the instructor. My PADI OW instructor was poor teacher and had no capacity to judge his students. And so despite his own skills & knowledge, I consider him a poor dive instructor. But John Thirlwell, who saw me through AOW, Deep and Nitrox courses was superb in every respect and I have heard his other pupils say so too.
     
  3. Gnomey

    Gnomey Well-Known Member

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    I like the training that is given by the NOB. Simalar to the way BSAC works.
    As for instructors I have to say my missus or she will kick me. As for others instructors I will reserve comments for a few weeks. I have some more booked soon)
     
  4. bottlefish

    bottlefish Super dooper member
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    I've had excellent instruction through PADI, IANTD and TDI, I've also seen and experinced shoddy instruction through the majority of agencies.

    Many instructors nowadays are multi agency. They don't change what or how they teach, just because they are issuing a different cert!

    The most important think is to select a good instructor and dive centre/ club... the more your diving progresses, the more important this becomes.

    That's the polite answer, although to be honest I think this thread is nothing more then a thinly veiled attack at PADI... boringly predictable, given the spate of course related questions of late, and Simon's hard on for that particular agency.

    So to explore that route... what other options are there after OW? You could go to an alternative agency eg SSI, NAUI etc and do their next course.... which will cost you about the same, have the same components and will be called advanced something or other, and probably be taught to you by a PADI instructor who has crossed over to a secondary agency.

    Or you could head down the club route, train with BSAC or the like. Speed of progression will be down to the club and available instructor time, costs can be cheaper, but with club fees, this isn't always the case.

    You could just not bother... merits of this have been discussed in another thread... but beyond the learning outside of a controlled environment, this will likely lead to restriction on diving, and will certainly preclude you from courses further on down the line, eg entry level tech.

    And of course, there is PADI.

    Hopefully that will be a little more use to the beginner diver trying to plot their diving progression.

    (Mark Powell is indeed a top instructor... but can you really see him picking up a course at AOW level;))
     
  5. Chris Handzel

    Chris Handzel Member

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    I think its like anything or like at school you do something or a subject and you can excel at it, the tutor, trainer, teacher,instructor, changes then you start to lose interest etc not all the time but i do think it depends on how things are done, and if peopl e there needs taken on board for eg are they real nervouss.
     
  6. RicherR

    RicherR Member

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    A lot of it is down to both the individual and the chemistry between instructor & student. I'll hear club members rating instructors, and the members would differ on who is the better instructor. However, there is nothing tangible that causes one member to prefer one instructor to the other.
     
  7. Pete

    Pete Banned

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    As far as I know GUE have the strictest standards for there instructors . I could be wrong but I don't think many if any agency have in place the need for instructors to continually prove there own skills are still as good as when they passed there instructor exams. Other agencies have some great instructors and these will teach you to be a great / safe diver. The problem is it's hard to know which ones are the good ones. For me this is the root of many agencies problems. Any instructor who is not confident enough to be tested every so often ( with the chance of loosing there teaching credentials) has no place teaching a sport/ hobbie that can so easily end up with a very very bad outcome. So for me until the main agency's put in place a regime of Istructor testing this problem will continue.
    Pete
     
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  8. Badknees

    Badknees Meg Pilot (retired) and Forum KGB

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    As much as I hate to say it GUE do put other agencies to shame when it come to a consistent level of standards for their instructors, as much as I don't like some of their diving ethos I do think that many agencies could look at how they keep their instructor standards as high as GUE do.

    IANTD has recently had a change of management and the new head of training Phil Short ( a very accomplished diver and diver trainer in his own right ) is in the process of re-evaluating the standards of IANTD instruction in the UK.

    I personally have trained with PADI, IANTD, TDI and PSAI and received top notch training.

    As Stuart has said previously the instructor is more important than which agency. Agencies change as the market place dictates GUE for example where solely a technical agency a few years back ( you had to be a qualified diver to do any of their courses) but are now doing OW courses ( for the extremely wealthy learner ) ;) because there was a demand for it. If GUE were as big as PADI or even IANTD then standards of instructors may fall as the demand increases for the number of instructors.

    Find a good instructor sod the agency they all teach roughly the same shit just on different paper.

    BK

    Sent from my Desire HD
     
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  9. billy burgess

    billy burgess Active Member

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    I think most newbies go to the nearest dive centre and choose pot luck , it's not until they are more experienced that they are able to make an informed decision on the training they have received because they have nothing to compare it with, but does help if they can find this forum.
     
  10. RicherR

    RicherR Member

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    This was certainly true for me, fortunately all the instructors there are good (and still are)
     
  11. Pete

    Pete Banned

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    As much as I hate to Agree with the Fundermentalist He's right
    Pete
     
  12. big si

    big si Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear Stuart youve taken it the wrong way, theres no attack on PADI. Im just highlighting the fact that there is better and if people want to be good divers to go to the best, although I would say all agencies have something that someone doesnt like about them GUE do produce the most skilled divers even though thier courses are more expencive than others and it will be a good pass, not a case of you have paid your money you get your cert.
    Now lets look at MP teaching AOW. I dont know if he would its not my place to ask but im sure if an instructor of his caliber was to, the studends will get the best instruction posible and would no doubt be the best AOW dives around.
     
  13. bottlefish

    bottlefish Super dooper member
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    Really? You're not attacking PADI, you are just saying that they are no good beyond OW. So what exaclty does that mean then?

    Mate, this is boring. You keep voicing the same rhetoric, beating the same old boring drum.... not facts, purely your opinion.

    Here are some real facts for you;

    PADI does not provide training. PADI provides a training system for an instructor to use.
    Many instructors and dive centres are multi agency
    The vast majority (I'd say all, with the exception of GUE) of commercial agencies offer exactly the same (or atleast incredibly similar) entry level course progression to PADI, i.e Open Water, AOW, RD. The content of the courses is also remarkably similar, if not identical, across agencies.
    All commercial agencies follow a similar route, and diving prerequisites, to DM and instructing as PADI
    If you ignore the logos, I doubt even an oracle with your esteemed widsom would be able to tell the difference between the same course offered by two different agencies.

    The only difference between PADI and the rest, is that PADI is massively successful, has a huge footprint in the recreational diver market. Beyond that, it's nowt more then a name.

    So where exactly should someone go after completing OW with PADI? To another agency, offering the same course, at the same price, from the same instructor, just with a different label on the card? Why is that going to be any better Simon? Or perhaps you are suggesting that they should all head to GUE?
    Finally, a point worthy of discussion, something different for a change.

    A simple analogy; would you want a professor of maths to teach your 4 your old basic addition? Would they be any good at it? Probably not on both counts, they are so removed from that level of learning, then can no longer relate to the issues that level of teaching encounters.

    So, would Mark provide the best AOW training? To be honest, it's hardly a hard course to teach, so his extra skills and knowledge aren't going to be needed...someone with less experience will probably embelish on some of the problems that you and I take for granted and don't even register any more, but could be huge hurdles for the less experienced diver. So I would say, quite possibly not.
     
  14. Major Clanger

    Major Clanger P-Plated Meg Diver

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    I may be wrong, it's allowed once a year, but I get the impression that GUE instructors are a dying breed in this country. Nothing to do with the agency so much as market forces. However, if GUE's your thing then there are some very highly regarded instructors out there. As fas as agencies are concered I've trained with PADI, BSAC and TDI/SDI getting out of each of them what my research indicated I would. That's what it comes down to, matching individual requirements and expectations with the most appropriate agency/instructor to meet that.
     
  15. Pete

    Pete Banned

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    Can anyone give a good reason why there should not be testing of instructors .
    Pete
    I can think of reasons why some may not want it
     
    big si likes this.
  16. davethedemon

    davethedemon Active Member

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    SSAC braught this in for the rescue scenario a couple of years ago, needs to be tested every 3yrs I think to maintain instructor status.
     
  17. Major Clanger

    Major Clanger P-Plated Meg Diver

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    Go on bottlefish, both barrels :)
     
  18. Pete

    Pete Banned

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    I take it you are in the let them pass a course and keep there ticket for life camp then or maybe i am wrong ?
    If one of my instructors was to come to me and say show me that skill i taught you then i would have no problem in showing them .If i was worried i could not do it i would have to question if i should keep the card i had. Now don't get me wrong I am not talking about text book skills here I am talking about doing a safe job of the skill.
    Pete
     
  19. Elvis

    Elvis Banned

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    Funny you should say that but yes, I've had a quote for him to do a mates AOW (it fell through in the end as my mate was made redundant), he said that he likes doing rec. courses every now and again.
    If anyone is seriously interested, you could always ask him, it's sure to be one of the best AOW's you could get! (it would be SDI BTW not PADI)
     
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  20. Major Clanger

    Major Clanger P-Plated Meg Diver

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    Your comment was about testing of instructors. I assume you mean periodically, after they've passed. Like, dare I say, on going quality control. Now you've done it, I'm about to be accused of being a bulldog with a rag running round a tired old tree. For clarification, I'm in the periodic checking of skills camp but not going down that road on here again...Sedatives cost a fortune.
     

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