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Another Reels vs Spools thread

Discussion in 'General Scuba Diving' started by nickb, Sep 15, 2020.

  1. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    From the CCR diving I've been doing recently, I've finally come to the conclusion that spools just aren't cut out for use as a primary SMB line. There's too much going on and the default for a spool is dropping to the bottom and making life miserable.

    The Fundies force was strong, very strong. I've persisted with spools for nearly 6 years, optimised the knitting, optimised the launch, but it really is pure pig-headed dogma on my part. Dropping the spool the other day was just the final straw and there's so much better technology available.

    I want to play with the new Custom Diver pocket spool for a while. Still convinced that the big Halcyon SMB is terrific in a sea where big is best and with no webbing loop to catch things, it works well.

    I really have an issue with things dangling off me, hence bungeeing the bailout cylinders back. I do want to see if I can mount a big reel behind me; needs some play, maybe even another bungee line!

    At the end of the day, CCR brings new requirements. Simplicity is one of them.
     
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  2. Vanny

    Vanny Well-Known Member

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    Feck me it’s xmas.
     
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  3. Vanny

    Vanny Well-Known Member

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    If your struggling to reach say the seam on your arse how about trying one of the butterfly clip off points - Agir or KT. It’ll put a ring to both sides , maybe easier to reach.
     
  4. nickb

    nickb Well-Known Member

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    OK, I've taken-up the challenge.

    My 100m narrow composite KT reel with a KT CO2 bag (single 16g cartridge version) weighs 1.6kg using my luggage scales.
    When suspended in a bucket of fresh water it weighs 0.4kg (I doubt salt water would reduce that much).

    Not exactly a burden, in the water or out. A few crabs or Scapa-sized clams would be heavier. Certainly lighter than my 20Ah dual outlet canister torch or even the 7l bailout tin I normally use for up to 40m diving.

    When I get back to Scapa and am reunited with the kit I left there, I could weigh my 50m version of the same reel (actually it has 75m of line and could take a fair bit more). I imagine it's a little lighter still.
     
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  5. nickb

    nickb Well-Known Member

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    This sort of thing...?

    He could take 2 :D

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Vanny

    Vanny Well-Known Member

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  7. nickb

    nickb Well-Known Member

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    No idea where mine came from. More stuff from my huge collection of dive tat.

    They do look very similar to those though.
     
  8. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    The Revo's got a KT stand (which looks a lot like the JJ stand TBH) which has convenient places to hang things. I'll try to get some photos of moi diving this weekend; not one for selfies and normally keep the Paralenz on the umbilical. Will use it standalone and see if I can mount it on the wreck(s) and pose in front of it.

    Of course if I dived with a buddy...

    @nickb - are you looking to flog those two D-rings? I've a pair of those on my X-Deep Stealth sidemount harness and they're great for hanging stages; would like to use them on the Revo as the bailout stages would hang a little lower and behind.
     
  9. Vanny

    Vanny Well-Known Member

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  10. Dave Whitlow

    Dave Whitlow Super Moderator
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    Well done. My views on spools are clear so I'll say no more.
    Was it strong enough for a pass?
    The simplicity of the AP dSMBi takes some beating and with a decent reel it is so simple. Forgetting to fill the bottle is possible but a simpler routine averts that (only stow it after filling) but the eventual fail is when the sadly neglected bottle/valve starts to leak gas (had that the other day). For that situation something like this
    https://bwsuk.com/ekmps/shops/e8533...zle-to-inflate-smbs-and-lift-bags-19074-p.jpg dangling off a spare LP hose (not attached) on the rich mixture is most helpful.

    If you are struggling to reach at the back then one of these might work
    https://deep-ideas.co.uk/Store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_93&products_id=569
     
  11. Dave Whitlow

    Dave Whitlow Super Moderator
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    AP dSMBi and CD 125m reel for deep wreck deployment and 'Mary Poppins' ascent to the first stop. hangs from AP wing (or back clip on Buddy Commando)
    [​IMG]


    Backup lives in pocket and is Aqua Elevation CO2 (with LP option) and CD 50m reel
    [​IMG]

    The sacrificial scalloping setup is /(repaired) Holycon LP inflate (fill on surface) and basic MGE reel (my first ever reel)

    [​IMG]

    (I'll do the in water weight check tomorrow)
     
  12. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    That looks very interesting. A genuinely different and novel idea that could be really good for backmount OC and some CCR units.

    Have you found any decent photos/videos of that online?

    (Light Monkey's website looks like it's designed by Hammond's designers. Some daft idea of not needing to scroll, but at a cost of not giving any useful info. Whilst modern design's got other problems, at least there's space to show pictures. The Deep Ideas site's far more informative than Light Monkey's)


    Could you weigh just the AP DSMBi please. Curious of the weight of it and the CD reel.

    Was quite surprised at the in-water weight of Nick's KT composite reel at a mere 400g (with the SMB).
     
  13. Doomanic

    Doomanic Dinosaur Wrangler
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    @Wibble I have a nearly new (one or two dives) KT comp ratchet reel if you want one.
     
  14. Vanny

    Vanny Well-Known Member

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    Had to weigh something. KT composite reel 130 mtrs I think with AP crack bottle 2.6 kg. Can’t be arsed getting it wet , soz.
     
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  15. Dave Whitlow

    Dave Whitlow Super Moderator
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    AP SMBi is 1100g (dry) and the bottle alone is 670g.
     
  16. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    Can Wibble reach his backside...

    In the absence of in-water photos, these will have to do.

    There's a couple of convenient D-rings which are easy to get to. Using a cave reel for sizing, which is great for line laying but no good for SMBs as there's no ratchet mechanism.

    Also noticed deliberate mistake on the small reel + SMB... Using the wrong bolt snap! Should be using the one that's dangling, not the one connected to the SMB.
    Revo - 3 clipping reels.jpg


    Really can't reach that far behind me. That's as far as my fingers can reach. Definitely can't reach the other reel dangling from the stand.

    Someone else clipped the small reel on the stand. I simply cannot reach that far back as the torch/heater battery and O2 cylinder's in the way.
    Revo - 1 rear max reach (annotated).jpg


    The reel's clipped to the D-ring.
    Revo - 4 clipping reels - side view.jpg


    Time for a lie down. Good to see that the reel's not dangling too far under.

    Suppose for the full monty, could have mounted a stage. The waist D-ring's just to the right the reel.
    Revo - 5 clipping reels - on the deck.jpg


    Am going to try launching my SMB from the small reel tomorrow. Am also going to take the camera and will see if I can rest it on the wreck and spin around in front of it.

    Have definitely come to my senses regarding reels vs spools. It was @nickb's point about the in-water weight of the KT composite 100m spool - only 400 grammes - which swung the discussion. @Dave Whitlow - would you think that the Custom Divers big spool's lighter in the water than the KT?
     
  17. nickb

    nickb Well-Known Member

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    Don’t forget that I’ve always said that I keep some gas in the CO2 bag to offset the weight. Can’t be more than 100g though.

    Regarding the CD reel vs the KT; how much more weight are you looking to shave-off? And how much are you prepared to compromise for that saving? I’ve owned both reels and I sold the CD reel within days of trying it out (I own 3 KT reels). The CD reels are fucking terrible IMHO. The ratchet is awful - two clicks per full turn and the on/off switch is cumbersome.
     
  18. nickb

    nickb Well-Known Member

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    Why have you got that stand on the rEvo? I thought they stood-up all on their own? That’s one of the few redeeming features of that unit. Why ruin it with extra crap?

    You wanna save a few extra grams? Ditch that stand. It probably weighs more than my 3 KT reels.
     
  19. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    I really like the stand. It means the unit is stable and much easier to get in and out of it on a boat. For (warm/summer) freshwater I need no additional weight. For seawater I add 3kg into the top bag, just above the scrubber cover. No doubt this will increase with the colder water undersuit.

    If ever I manage to fly with the unit I’ll remove the stand.

    I’ll keep my eyes peeled for a CD reel. Want to try with the little reel for now and make the CD / KT decision later. It’s as much about their overall size as anything.
     
  20. Vanny

    Vanny Well-Known Member

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    I’ve got both I’ll try to weigh them , don’t seem to be capable of photos , happily email them to you, don’t bother explaining photos I’m only on a phone and tech ain’t my thing.

    As Nick says the CD reel has a poor mechanism, you kinda need 3 hands , 1 blob , 1 hold reel , 1 release mechanism- it’s separate to the handle , unlike the KT you hold and release with your thumb. I only keep the CD reel as a back up or to lay line if returning to a shot.
     

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