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Air in Feet on Ascent in Trim

Discussion in 'Dry Suits' started by georgedavo, Dec 29, 2019.

  1. georgedavo

    georgedavo Member

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    Hi All,

    Just a quick one regarding ascending in horizontal trim.

    When I ascend at the end of a dive I tend to get air stuck in my feet as these are above my torso, it’s not a major issue at the moment as just break trim to dump, but the ascent isn’t as controlled as I’d like with this method, especially dealing with reeling in a DSMB etc.

    I’ve been pondering changing my drysuit boots to either socks and rock boots or the “turbo” style boots that otter sell, and having the legs on my suit tapered slightly, as they’re a tad baggy from the knees down. It’s a made to measure neo suit, but I think in order for to attach to the boots to the suit this section of the suit had to be a bit wider than my lower legs in order to fit.

    Bit of context to my diving - twin 12 concave euros, 2kg tail weight, jet fins, only take squeeze off with suit etc. I even have a 1.5kg block of lead on my crotch strap just above the rear D ring acting as an additional tail weight.

    My trim is flat and stable with the above, I just find it hard to move the bubble from my feet on ascent in order to dump it.

    Just wondering what others that have had similar issues have done to rectify the situation.

    Cheers!
     
  2. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    I've neoprene socks (think it could be as thick as 8mm!) fitted to my membrane drysuit which I use rock boots. Have been diving with this suit for over 4 years and have many hundreds of dives in it. I only ever ascend horizontally, sticking to "the position" (arms out front, knees up, calves bent up 45 degrees, fins flat, thus feet 'high') -- been doing if for so long that I'd struggle any other way.

    I never notice floaty feet or changes in foot buoyancy that affects my trim. If there's plenty of air in the suit, e.g. more gas in the suit to keep warm, then the ascent will need more gas dumping, but a dry suit's like that anyway. I dive with the dump fully open unless I'm at a deco stop, particularly the long one at 6m, where I'll tighten the dump to allow more gas for insulation.

    As I said, never really noticed foot buoyancy issues. Therefore I'll assume that the rock boots and socks are doing their job and not letting gas migrate up there. I do remember that with "wellies" attached to my old drysuit, there was a tendency to need to straighten up to get the gas up from the boots. (Remember on my Rescue Diver test that my boot came off my foot, complete with fin attached -- had to get someone on the boat to "reseat" the boot on my foot!)


    If I had issues with a 'bubble' in the boot (if I dived with boots, etc.), then I think I'd be aware of it and put the feet more downwards during the fast part of the ascent.

    Thinking about it, I remember my old neoprene suit would dump very quickly from my upper torso, but it, I think, retained more gas further down my carcass due to the elasticity of the neoprene. This definitely isn't the case with membrane suits where the 'bubble' freely moves around the suit.

    (bit of a ramble, hope it helps!)
     
  3. georgedavo

    georgedavo Member

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    Yup that’s great thanks, what you describe with your old suit is pretty much what I’m experiencing. The boots currently attached probably fall into wellie territory too.
     
  4. kevin b

    kevin b Member

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    Try leg gaiters
     
  5. Tribal Chestnut

    Tribal Chestnut Well-Known Member
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  6. georgedavo

    georgedavo Member

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    Seaskin Neoprene, made to measure
     
  7. Tribal Chestnut

    Tribal Chestnut Well-Known Member
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    Ah, that could be a contributing factor, especially with built-in booties.

    I have an O3 MSF500 and it is a bit of a pig to dive in.

    I used to be very foot-light - only resolved by putting weight in the pockets - until I changed over to a trilam suit with socks and rock boots.

    I’m now foot heavy which is much easier to control and compensate for.
     
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  8. georgedavo

    georgedavo Member

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    Thanks, seems like it’ll be worth me ditching the integrated boots at some point
     
  9. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    What fins do you use? I used to use Hollis F1s which are heavy and compensate for light feet. (Now use JetFins which are a little lighter than F1s, but still a 'heavy' fin)
     
  10. georgedavo

    georgedavo Member

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    XL jet fins and they definitely do the job of pulling my feet down to keep my trim good

    It just feels like there’s a bit too much of an air space around my mid calf to ankle, so when the gas in my suit expands on ascent it can’t be dumped very quickly making parts of my ascent a bit quicker than I’d like.

    I also have a cuff dump currently that needs changing for a shoulder auto dump so thought I’d make all the changes in one go rather than continually sending my suit in for changes.

    I’m likely to take it in to Otter rather than back to seaskin, as they’re open on Saturdays
     
  11. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    The previous gaiter point is possibly correct. I think it's Seaskin who do velcro gaiters to wrap around calves and keep the air at bay. Might be possible to find some temporary alternative that would do the same.
     
  12. Vanny

    Vanny Well-Known Member

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    I know I’m not trendy but feet up isn’t really that important during a conventional ascent is it ? Your gonna spend a lot of good money for the sake of adopting a slightly head up ascent. Sure I know flat deco etc but really ? Save your money for when you do a full suit upgrade.
     
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  13. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    I find it warmer when flat; legs aren't squeezed. Also supposed to be better for deco. And, if sharing a shot, you can get more people at one level (memories of having to hang on at 7 metres to stop being kicked in the head by the 5 metre safety stop brigade).
     
  14. Vanny

    Vanny Well-Known Member

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    Yep get all that hence the “sure I know flat deco” comment. But whilst on the move change trim , stops / safety flat.
     
  15. georgedavo

    georgedavo Member

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    Agreed it isn’t a major issue, and can’t really justify a new suit any time soon, it was just that I was advised to change my cuff dump for a shoulder dump, so thought that it might be worth changing the boots at the same time if it is likely to help with reducing gas accumulation around my feet
     
  16. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    The shoulder dump definitely helps empty the suit when flat. Best to have it further around, as opposed to the front of the shoulder, which is better for when you're flat in the water.

    Regarding boots... I'm a fan of neoprene socks and rock boots. Much better to walk around in and a much tighter fit. They're also great for keeping crap out of your suit -- walking through mud/sand/grit/crap and then you roll your drysuit up around them. Joy! Rock boots off and in a carrier bag, in the suit bag. Clean-footed suit then rolled up and thrown in bag. Clean. Simples :)
     
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  17. georgedavo

    georgedavo Member

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    That’s another reason I want to go in to somewhere like otter to discuss what I want - to get the dump as far round as I can get it with a rear entry zip. I’ll probably need it slightly closer to my shoulder than mid arm to get it on the outside of my arm though

    All part of the learning process for what to look for in my next suit I suppose!
     
  18. Tel

    Tel Super Moderator
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    Ok look at this from a different angle
    "but the ascent isn’t as controlled as I’d like with this method, especially dealing with reeling in a DSMB etc."

    I dive/swap between suits some with shoulder, some with cuff dump and many wrong sized :)
    Often I loan my own suit as it fits students better or check out a new zip repair etc on a club suit.
    Makes no odds can do and control the same ascent (and deploy a DSMB) with all of them.

    Ok I have personal fave sure, but don't let that effect any skillbase.

    If the horizontal ascent is not as controlled go vertical, spend time and nail this first and get the skill tight
    using cuff and that will solve your feet problem. Can always go neutral and horizontal once you reach the stop.

    Once this is 'as controlled', start switching to horizontal and see how the control differs. You've now got a
    a control or learned example to compare against and can adapt position or technique to deal with it based
    on that.

    So my advice is to spend more time on your existing first and that will make you more objective as to what
    YOU want and not what someone else 'thinks' you want :)

    PS: Many rescue lifts are done vertically, so none of this is wasted even if your fave is horiizontal
     
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  19. Zubar

    Zubar Active Member
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    I can’t believe nobody’s mentioned ankle weights!
    Where has the comedy gone?!!!
     
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  20. John F

    John F Active Member

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    Oh , now you’ve started something
     

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