Twinset Advice Needed!

[Ovey]

Hi all, I am finally putting together my shopping list for a twinset after months of borrowing them. I have decided on Eurocylinder twin 12's with Halcyon manifold and twinning bands, and also the 2 x Apeks DST with XTX 50 with 7' miflex hose and XTX40 with 24" miflex hose, all from http://www.dirdirect.com as this looks to be a good package.

The thing that I am having snags on deciding is which wing. I have been looking at the Custom Divers TDB, which I have also used and come to like a lot, but also I like the look of the Halcyon Explorer wing too. Do any of you have experience with either of these wings and have any advice for me?

I'm not a DIR diver and hence do not have anything against the bungee on the side of the TDB, however I will be using most of the DIR setup for my twinset, as that has been suggested by my instructor, and I have come to like the simplicity of that setup.

Many thanks for any advice!

[Davey_Willo]

I'd keep away from bungies, my thinking may appear biased as I dive DIR and have done for about 4 years or more now but the truth is that bungies are designed to deflate your wing when you press the button, great idea until you get a punture, cracked elbow or jammed in dump valve, I'd hate to be carrying twins, stages etc and suddenly have my wing unintentionally deflate thanks to a problem. Without bungies there is still the possibilty of gaining lift from the wing by changing position to keep the problem low.

I can highly recommend the DIRZone 20l (40# lift) wing as Halcyon are overpriced and these days lacking in the expected manufacturing quality, from what I've seen anyway.

Hope that helps.

Dave.

[Sakara Drinker]

Davey_Willo Wrote:I'd keep away from bungies, the truth is that bungies are designed to deflate your wing when you press the button, great idea until you get a punture, cracked elbow or jammed in dump valve,

Quite true Dave but not a problem if you have dual bladders. I know this is yet another can of worms but I am very happy with my OMS dual bladdered bungied wing of death.

[Ian]

Apeks DST - isn't that the one with the swivelling turret? Wouldn't you be better off with a DS4, or even FRS/FST for hose routing? DS4 is cheaper too, and I thought the DIR guys didn't like the DST because the turret was a potential failure point....

I don't dive a twinset, so I'm speculating based on half remembered old forum threads and pub chat...

Ian

[Ovey]

Ah, good point on the deflate issue with bungees Dave.... I hadn't even thought of that! I was just thinking that with bungees the wing would be more streamlined once at depth with the minimum/no air in it. As for the build qualities of Halcyon, I haven't actually seen any of their wings so couldn't comment..... might have to pop in to the shop next time I'm down in Castletown.

Ian, I looked at both the DS4 and the DST and just thought that hose routing might be better with a swivel turret... guess I need a bit more advice on that one because what you have said makes sense too. But as I said I'm not actually DIR, I just embrace some of their principles, so if the swivel is easier for routing I'll use it, if it makes no difference I'll use the DS4. Money is better in my pocket as the saying goes!

But thanks for the advice so far, as always it's much appreciated.

[Ian]

Ovey Wrote:Ian, I looked at both the DS4 and the DST and just thought that hose routing might be better with a swivel turret... guess I need a bit more advice on that one because what you have said makes sense too. But as I said I'm not actually DIR, I just embrace some of their principles, so if the swivel is easier for routing I'll use it, if it makes no difference I'll use the DS4. Money is better in my pocket as the saying goes!

My wife has a DST and the hoses come out in a kind of star configuration which seems untidy to me. The DS4 (I use one for my pony) has 2 fixed on each side which seems much neater. I also find that the swivel always manages to trap my hand when screwing in the DIN fitting (although others have said they like the flexibility of the swivel).

DS4 only has one HP port compared with two on the DST - if that matters to you.

Also watch out - there are two variants of the DST. The original DST has one larger MP port for your primary reg (old ATX style) whereas on the XTX-DST the MP ports are all the same size, meaning you can hook up your primary reg wherever you want. The DS4 only has one version with all standard MP ports.

Ian

[Davey_Willo]

Yes Phil, another can of wiggley things indeed so bugger off with yer double bladder death trap....

Ian raises a good point about the DST, DIR being anal about failure points try to reduce them in every way shape and form but this is probably based on the fact that the DIR principles evolved from the cave diving community and a failure at x thousand feet into a cave could be fatal, whereas for yourself doing recreational diving or even technical diving its not so dangerous...

Personally I run DS4's and have no trouble with routing hoses but as you're not trying to maintain a fully DIR compliant rig then its your choice really Ovey, you would be ok with either DS4's or DST's. If it was me, I'd reduce both cost and failure points...

[Ovey]

Davey_Willo Wrote:Personally I run DS4's and have no trouble with routing hoses but as you're not trying to maintain a fully DIR compliant rig then its your choice really Ovey, you would be ok with either DS4's or DST's. If it was me, I'd reduce both cost and failure points...

I'm with you on that one Davey! So it's looking like the twin 12's with DS4, XTX 50/40 combo. One more wing question that might seem a bit dumb.....

I intend to run mostly with just twin 12's as I said originally, but with the occasional sideslung (or maybe very occasionally 2) once I've done some advanced deco training. What sort of lift should I be looking for with the wings? Most seem to come in 2 lift capacities at around either 40lb or 55lb.

[bottlefish]

I dive a TDB, double bladdered, with bungee. I'm afraid nothing so far has convinced me (although open to more attempts ) that double bladdered detracts from safety.

Again, with bungees. I have heard lots of pros and cons, however from my own experience, I eventually removed my bungee from TDB and dive without it, basically found that pockets of air would get trapped between the bungies, and potentially stop it all from getting out. Unbungied gives a much smoother ride, the wing sits neater when deflated as well. But here's the thing... if I decided I wanted to put it back on, I could. I have the choice.

Elbow joints, avoid them like the plague! I've watched three dsientegrate during deco hangs (thankfully not all on the same one), so in my mind and unacceptably high risk for a minor comfort improvement.

With regards to twinset, a friend of mine is selling his faber tseel12's, MDE manifold and valves with CD twinning bands and a custom made carry handle/valve guard. Not sure how much he wants, I think the tanks are out of test, however I am sure they will be well looked after, the guy in question is incredibly experienced and capable diver. PM me if you are interested.

[Ian]

bottlefish Wrote:Elbow joints, avoid them like the plague! I've watched three dsientegrate during deco hangs (thankfully not all on the same one), so in my mind and unacceptably high risk for a minor comfort improvement.

Stupid question I'm sure, but what is an elbow joint, and what is the alternative?

Ian