Finning Cadence, Ellie's Shocking Revelation!

[EllieCee]

Well maybe the title was a bit dramatic.....

As someone who comes from a cycling background, I have been wondering for quite some time now if applying the same cadence ( crank revolutions per minute ) principles could also be applied to diving ( kicks per minute )?

To be an efficient cyclist pedaling at 90 crank revolutions per minute or above was considered more efficient than leaving your bike in a big gear and mashing the pedals. You could ride for longer, be faster, adapt to terrain changes, and use less energy than trying to force the pedals round at 30 rpm ( The way most people seem to ride, and make cycling look really hard work in the process! ) The same principles have been applied somewhat to running. Little and often steps instead of big strides. So why not to diving?

When I came to diving, it was a whole new concept. My instructor would tell me off for using a high kick cadence, and said that you have to do BIG kicks from the hips. But surely, applying the little and fast kicking method would mean you could use less energy, and more importantly less air and increase dive times by using this method, so why then do we get taught that we have to do huge kicks which a lot of peoples legs are not strong enough to do, instead of taking a more scinetific approach and applying what has been learned in other endurance sports?

Is this the principle behind forcefins? It seems to me to make a lot of sense. Who really has the leg strength to efficiently push big fins against water resistance without using lots of energy? Is having bigger fins a 'hey, I'm a fab diver' statement, or can they really be used effectively?

One of the things I have noticed, is that when I go diving with RachyBaby, she does little kicks, and I have been doing the BIG hip kicks as taught. At the end of every dive she has more air left than me. I wonder now, if we went diving together and I adopted the little but fast kick cycle and she used big and slow, if the air usage trend would be reversed?

So who wants to volunteer to try and high cadence, low effort ick style next time they dive?! Go on, you know you want to, even if its only to prove me wrong!

Ellie ( or Thelma as some think... )

[Davey_Willo]

Sack the flutter kick and learn to frogkick Ellie..

Kick and Glide.......................... Kick and Glide.......................... Kick and Glide..........................

But most importantly!! You won't disturb the bottom and stir up the $hit, result, better viz for all concerned..... you know it make sense

[Polly]

Yup, frog-kick all the way for me - unless I can hitch a ride on some current and drift along! Finning? Energy? Muscles? That would require effort now, wouldn't it? I'm far too lazy for that!

The secret is to find conditions where your legs do bugger all... and just dive there for the rest of your life!

In all seriousness though, I have a feeling that the hip kicks are probably good training for swimming in a current? If you were only doing little ones, you might not be able to increase this if you needed more force?

[Phil O]

Davey_Willo Wrote:Sack the flutter kick and learn to frogkick Ellie..

Kick and Glide.......................... Kick and Glide.......................... Kick and Glide..........................

But most importantly!! You won't disturb the bottom and stir up the $hit, result, better viz for all concerned..... you know it make sense

The boy Willo is right .. I've seen Davey dive loads of times but only ever seen him kick 3 times ... he seems to move by will power alone. The force is strong in this one!!

[Phil O]

Polly Wrote:The secret is to find conditions where your legs do bugger all...

Ah .. I've suffered from that condition on many an occasion

[Davey_Willo]

Phil O Wrote:The boy Willo is right .. I've seen Davey dive loads of times but only ever seen him kick 3 times ... he seems to move by will power alone. The force is strong in this one!!

LOL, its loads of beans mate, I dive Blazing Saddles Stylee, and you thought those bubbles were only emanating from my second stage....

[Phil O]

Davey_Willo Wrote:LOL, its loads of beans mate, I dive Blazing Saddles Stylee, and you thought those bubbles were only emanating from my second stage....

Yuk ... will think twice about a bubble check for you

[coldhands]

I can't master the frog-kick. I end up heading to the surface. Plus, I like to go really slow so I don't miss the tiny critters and I can't control my speed so well.
But you are quite right, EllieCee, there should be more science to reducing some people's air consumption (naming no names but I've had my husband hang off my octopus more than once).

[Bobco]

Have the wrong fins for a frog, but agree with the long and slow principle for many reasons, most as above, but mainly because people tend to move far to fast in the water as it is. Slow and relaxed, that’s the best way to be

[EllieCee]

Davey_Willo Wrote:Sack the flutter kick and learn to frogkick Ellie..

Kick and Glide.......................... Kick and Glide.......................... Kick and Glide..........................

But most importantly!! You won't disturb the bottom and stir up the $hit, result, better viz for all concerned..... you know it make sense

Not stirring up the bottom is good, but I suspect that I won't be able to frog kick due to the forces involved not agreeing with the torn cartilage and trauma caused by a knee cap dislocation 9 months ago. I tried scissor kicking and could do it with one leg but not the other!

Maybe I should tell the NHS I need my knee fixing sooner because I have diving to do!

Ellie