Rushing The Padi Progression?

[EllieCee]

Over the past month or so, I've been getting conflicting information about doing the Advanced Open Water course directly after finishing Open Water, culminating in my UK instructor getting a bit trippy about it, so due to peer pressure I have cancelled my AOW and am instead going to do National Geographic, Naturalist & Peak Performance Buoyancy specialities instead when I go to Egypt in a couple of weeks. My UK instructor reckons I should do at least 20 dives before going for the advanced, So it seems that if this is the case, and there are no guidelines to stop Mr Or Mrs holiday diver going on a weeks hol and coming back as AOW qualified divers then PADI is just out to make lots of money without really caring for safe diving habits of its students?

I was wondring what peoples opinions are on this?

Ellie ( Divemaster in 3 days )

[bottlefish]

Have you any idea of the can of worms you've just opened up with that question and statement?!

Simply put, the prerequisite for Advanced Open Water is Open Water, so yes, a diver can go straight in to AOW after compelting OW. Wether they should or not depends upon the diver, and also the conditions they intend to dive in.

The AOW course introduces the relatively inexperienced diver to new areas and skills, expanding their diving awareness beyond that of basic open water, whilst under the watchful eye of an instructor. It doesn't make the diver an advanced diver, it advances them beyond the basic information given in the Open Water course.

The AOW course will introduce you to deeper dives, down to a maximum of 30 metres. This does have added risk, you want to be sure that you in water skills and confidence are capable of taking you there and back without issue. Red Sea diving conditions will be good when you head out, so you will find the diving quite easy.

The one thing to remember, and this holds regardless of the agency a diver is training under or the certification a diver is taking, a diver needs to remember the conditions they were trained and have experience in, be realistic about how well prepared and capable they would be in more challenging conditions. If you do decide to complete the AOW whilst diving in the crystal clear waters of the Red Sea, don't rush into trying to complete similar dives in the UK, the conditions are not as amenable or forgiving.

You may already know this, but just in case - the first dive of a speciality course can also count towards the AOW course, so if you do complete all three specialities as planned then you only need to complete two more dives to qualify as AOW (which would need to be the deep and navigation dives)

Is it unsafe for an OW diver to go straight to AOW? I think it depends upon the OW diver and the conditions they are heading to, the instructor should be savvy enough to work this out. If you came to me as recently qualified OW, I would certainly start off with less challenging dives (e.g navigation) to give me a chance to gauge your water skills, if I thought you could do with a little more experience before carrying on, I would let you know. Why not take the same approach with your instructor in the Red Sea, complete your specs as planned, spend some more time under water, and them ask them for an honest appraisal of your ability and readiness?

[Steppenwolf]

I think it depends on the individual; the impression of the OW trainer for that particular diver would be useful. Having seen and assessed the student during the basic course, the instructor will hopefully give the right advice.

Having said that, I feel that it is best to do the AOW soon after the OW certification, even if it is not immediatly. The problem with 'plain' OW is that it officially limits the diver to 18 metres; while this is probably all right to keep in touch by quarry dives like Vobster or Stoney, it would pose severe limitations during diving holidays abroad. For example, with a PADI OW certification alone, a diver on a Red Sea Liveaboard trip would not be licenced to dive to the wreck of SS Thistlegorm, although we all know that the local instructors often 'stretch' these rules a bit. Of course, if there is an incident, there will be implications with the diver's insurance.

[Bobco]

This should be fun
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I feel that your dive training, and its linked progression is a fundamental to being a safe diver. I would agree that to move on you need the confidence to do just that, some do that sooner than others.
But simply to rush through and go badge collecting could, and I only say could, end in tears, by finding yourself in a situation that you may have the training to resolve, but you simply do not have the experience action effectively

[Dougalsdad01]

The best thing you can do after the OW is to get some dives under your belt, problem is that many people qualify and then struggle to get in the water due to lack of equipment, lack of a budyy, lack of opportunity. So the best thing you can do after the OW is to take the AOW as it gives you 5 good structured dives in one weekend.

[O2 Steve]

well said Bob and I totally agree!

Experiance is key and it builds confidence enabling the diver to be in a better position to handle what may occure and the rigors of their next progression training-wise. People should never rush into a course just because its available, better to take thier time and progress only when they feel ready to do so.

[Ian]

I agree experience is the way forward.

I'm not sure if Naturalist and National Goegraphic are a good way to spend your pennies (unless you're filthy rich!). If I were you I would fun dive the first few days. If you feel confident, go for AoW, and to the PPB and Naturalist options. They count as the first dive of the spec if you find them useful and want to complete the spec. If you find that your instructor isn't much of a naturalist himself then you can do it some other time!

If you don't feel confident to do AoW, just fun dive for experience or maybe do PPB if you think that will help you. Remember though that PPB and Nav dives are going to be training - you won't be on the best sites seeing the most interesting stuff for these dives, you'll be concentrating!

Ian

ian

[bottlefish]

Ian Wrote:I'm not sure if Naturalist and National Goegraphic are a good way to spend your pennies (unless you're filthy rich!).

I'm afraid I don't agree Ian. Naturalist and Nat Geo teach the diver a lot about the environment they are diving in, not only in terms of the life they will see but also the fragile eco systems that they are part of.

How long does it usually take for a diver to really appreciate their surroundings, and gain an rudamentary knowledge of the aquatic life?

[Ian]

bottlefish Wrote:

Ian Wrote:I'm not sure if Naturalist and National Goegraphic are a good way to spend your pennies (unless you're filthy rich!).

I'm afraid I don't agree Ian. Naturalist and Nat Geo teach the diver a lot about the environment they are diving in, not only in terms of the life they will see but also the fragile eco systems that they are part of.

How long does it usually take for a diver to really appreciate their surroundings, and gain an rudamentary knowledge of the aquatic life?

I'm sure (like many things) it is dependent on the instructor, but most instructors I have encountered treat the naturalist dives as "oh look a fish, you're signed off now" and leave you to read the book on your own. I can say this of at least 4 instructors in 3 dive centers who I have observed with other people diving in a group with us.

On the other hand, I have also dived with at least 3 guides who have been excellent at pointing out interesting life and geography on the dives, explaining the site, and debriefing on what was seen afterwards. They provide wildlife guides, ID slates etc, and recommend ones for visitors to buy if they are interested.

I guess what I am saying is that a good guide should really be making a diver aware of their environment anyway, and that the standard of instruction I have seen is mixed...

Note I did suggest doing the first dive of naturalist/NG as part of AoW, which was partly to find out if the instructor was any good in these areas!

I also suspect (personally) that at the start of your diving career gaining skills in compass work and acclimatising to depth might be a better use of time, although that will of course depend a lot on the individual.

[bottlefish]

I think your first and last statements say it all really, the course quality will depend on the instructor, and the true value of that course will depend entirely on the individual.